I don't think it's too fine a nit to pick.
But then I'm a nit.

I don't know what this is but I specifically asked you how to reconcile the Sacred 2nd Amendment with Black Guys Sometimes Having Guns in that other thread a few weeks ago, before this became a national issue.

How do you propose carrying a gun on your person when any movement can be interpreted as reaching for that gun?

Fwiw I get an annoyance about the misuse of 'murder' but from watching these videos that misuse is totally understandable. These aren't nebulous examples.

I imagine Dids, and anyone who's calling it murder, believe the killing was unlawful, and it's absurd to suggest people with that belief need to wait for a court to rule on the matter to say "murder".

I don't think you asked me that question, but I'll answer it.

I have no problem with Black Guys Having Guns, I see people as individuals not carriers of skin pigments.

We should address criminals having guns and crazies having guns, but race has nothing to do with it.




So, If you are pinned to the ground but possibly have a hand/arm free, can you fire your gun?

Ok.
Then to be clear, because I seem to have been lumped into some sort of police apologist camp, I see negligent homicide in La and a depraved indifference in Minn. Unlawful, but not premeditated.

So wait now police can shoot people just for possessing a gun and theoretically being able to fire it? I mean I guess we shouldn't take anything hornbug says seriously but is that the argument? That's like open season on every open carry person ever unless you add in some other criteria and once you add in that criteria your case gets pretty flimsy as the guy never comes close to pulling a gun in this video.

That would be because of the apologetics you posted on behalf of the police.

I don't think Dids is claiming premeditated murder in some legal sense. You are just being a nit for no real reason. This isn't a court, it's an online forum. Why are you taking offense at murder? The word has a colloquial meaning that no one other than you is confused about too.

What about this guy? He moves his hand.

This is apologist?
Cop screw caused the shooting?
Tough crowd.

Nits gonna nit.

I mostly joined this thread because I'm seeing so many "cops are murdering black men" type opinions out there. That implies there's a desire by police to intentionally kill black men. Instead, I see too many contacts between police and black men, mostly due to drug laws. And people die because poverty + drugs + police + guns = dead bodies. Now in a country that won't give up guns, where poverty has never been solved, and human police; drugs seems like the easiest to take out of the equation.

This sounds like you're trying to fit something like the Minnesota shooting, which had nothing to do with any of this, into your preconceived notions of why this violence happens, and are refusing to accept the possibility of racism being part of the equation.

I don't think a cop pulled over Philando Castile's girlfriend with the intention to kill somebody, but I do think he has some latent (or maybe not so latent) racist views of black people that caused him to get way too jumpy and trigger-happy in response to a guy reaching around his waist area, which results in the accidental death of a white person ~never and results in the accidental death of a black person, even one who is not poor and not involved with drugs, a lot more often. This mumbo jumbo about "well they have more interactions with black people because of drug laws which results in etc etc" seems like an attempt at skipping around the core issue.

screw-up is a term you use when you use wrong cover sheet on the tps reports.

It was awhile back in the 'law and order' thread. It started with me saying that mis-characterizing Tamir Rice as being a kid playing with a toy in the park misses the point and is counterproductive. In light of the past few days that probably makes more sense:




If it's in your pocket, no. If holstered, probably not.

this view would be more credible if we were seeing middle to upper class blacks being shot in the suburbs after being pulled over for speeding. But almost all these cases are occurring in an environment with more variables than just race - and those variables are what the cops react to.

Am I being trolled? Is this not the exact event that JUST happened in Minnesota?

Well, he did say,


I mean, this study has probably been linked already:

http://www.npr.org/2015/08/29/435833...ck-study-finds

So I don't think that part is being disputed.

I mean, stopped for a broken taillight? That's bull****.
Everyone knows what that is. It's pretext to stop and search. For drugs.
The easiest way to control a population is to make them all criminals.

That case might be the closest to an outlier but not for all the cases in LA, Missouri, NY, etc. But even in the Minn case, the guy announced he had a gun and was reaching into his pants - that's a red flag to a cop. And we don't know the cop's story there yet either.

Nope. This is a sad yet common misunderstanding about the nature of racism. Racism is not only the explicit, conscious, hatred of a group. It also manifests in other ways too. The cop doesn't have to think "Oh good, a black guy, I'm going to find an excuse to shoot". He only has to think "Blacks are more prone to violence. They carry illegal weapons and listen to raps about shooting people. Better not take any chances. OH **** HE'S REACHING FOR HIS WAIST BAND!" and bang, they make a decision they never would've made when dealing with some middle class white guy. The cop's prejudice doesn't need to be on the surface. It can be implicit. Anything ingrained in him that makes him take fewer risks, be more alert, be more impulsive, make sure he takes this guy extra seriously.

How often do you think people announce they are armed before shooting police officers? Probably as often as they announce to cops they are going to commit any crime i.e. never. He was clearly saying it to defuse the situation and prevent exactly what happened. Meanwhile white guy with gun in his holster probably doesn't even get drawn on.

So, you don't own a firearm? I figured that just came with your starter pack.