Man for having the MOAST BEST doctors and presumably MOAST BEST pharma and MOAST BEST technology, our healthcare system is like the Texas Longhorns of underachieving. Doctors are overpaid, period.

I'm sure it is, but what the ****? If Riverman doesn't "walk away", is ikes threatening to continue making terrible barely relevant posts in this thread where he alternates between:

1) Turbo-reposting whatever random bull**** anti-Obamacare talking point is on Drudge lately

2) Whining that America isn't nice enough to doctors

Because, spoiler alert, I kinda see him doing that no matter what. He randomly declares victory every 5th to 10th post, rarely has a point, and is obviously just working out the inferiority complex that is literally his entire personality.

Show your work. You have feelings, but the USA has the best doctors and an amazingly difficult road to certification. They're paid a lot, but not a lot more than many countries. Salaries fall in the 5-6x range, just like many other countries.

ikes so basically your position is that Medicare should not try to negotiate the best deal it can with providers? Let's be clear. renodoc and NHA already went there, they think Medicare should operate under a dual mandate of both providing care and also paying as much money as doctors feel they are entitled to.

So is that your position as well?

Ike if our doctors are so awesome why are our people dying like 10 years sooner than everywhere else where people aren't living on dirt floors? And before you say fatties or blacks, know that people have done studies on that and the results aren't good for you. Now you might say access, and you might have a leg to stand on there, but we all know how you feel about Obamacare, single payer and really anything that actually increases access.

Weird thread tangent where, apparently, the emerging talking point is that we shouldn't rely on market mechanisms but just ask questions like "how important is this" and "how much schooling" to figure how how to compensate private actors. Socialism!

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2013/...2141373681251/

hey we've moved up to 27th, so we've got that going for us. actual study is behind paywall ofc so here's a fun article. We're so good!

Life expectancy is a far more complicated game than how good your doctor is. That's a real in-depth conversation that we can have if you really want to. I doubt you have much to add frankly, but hey, go for it. I'd sure as hell try to talk about that instead of your idiotic characterization of total health care expenditures with doctor pay.

It's a pretty simple. Take home doc pay makes up around 10% of the USA health care expenditure. You could literally pay a doctor ****ing nothing and the USA would be MASSIVELY over on the other side of your little scatter plot.

It really isn't that hard, and it's time to admit your mistake and move on.

Seriously. How ****ing amazing is it that alleged free market folks are arguing, with a straight face, that a fixed price that they voluntarily accept is too low? The ****?

Have you met a lawyer? They're some of the most aloof, materialistic people on the planet.

Doctor pay making up only 10% of cost is not a counterargument for them being overpaid. Yes I get that you're trying to point out its small effect on health care cost overall. No, it does not invalidate anyone's point.

It absolutely does when you make up your argument based on total expenditures. It's not hard here schu, riverman is making a really ****ing dumb argument and no one else is really even trying, but they're rallying to the cause because apparently everyone is bored on a sunday night.

If you want to make an argument about doctors being overpaid, you need to, you know, actually look at doctor pay. It's not that ****ing hard. Yet, here you guys are, operating on a mixture of feelings with some jealousy.

I mean if it makes you feel better, hospital costs and big pharma's ridiculous grip on the industry are equally ridiculous. There, I'll slap everyone for being overpaid just so it's fair.

Ike I can assure you, and I don't think I'm alone, jealousy is not a factor here.

We're #27! We're #27!

It's jealousy alright, jealousy of other countries who actually get their money's worth when it comes to healthcare

See.... You haven't come close to showing this.

As a hw assignment, take a look at the growth in doctor pay vs the growth in the things you mention here. Then take a look at USA doctor pay, hospital costs and medical device expenditures compared to other countries.

Equating everyone is ****ing dumb when a subset is the actual drivers of cost.

In the case of Lucentis, one treatment in the UK costs ~1250 (741 pounds as of 2012). United States, it's ~2000. Seems to me Medicare doesn't have enough bargaining power with big pharma. Maybe a stronger, more robust single payer will be able to negotiate that price down.

Dude, **** you.

Oh look. GPs only. What happens to the Netherlands and Australia when you look at all doctors?

Lol you have a completely uninformed yet hardened opinion. Learn something. I don't feel like have the same conversation again.

How much data do you need to look at to show that healthcare costs, yes part of that is doctor salary, are out of control in the US and our outcomes are quite low compared with the spending in the rest of the world? Like at some point YOU need to make the counterargument. I'm not going to make your counterargument for you.

Like you're SOOO informed and know all of this so well that proving us all wrong should be quite easy for you, I assume.

When have I ever ****ing said that health care costs aren't out of control? I never have said such a thing. I've come at your completely unsupported stupid ass assertion that doctor salaries are driving that loss of control. That's not what is ****ing happening. The only way you would think otherwise is if you're completely uninformed, like riverman. Show that you're not uninformed.

From the same article: