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The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 237: Back to Court The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 237: Back to Court

02-13-2014 , 10:55 AM
adios,

what model of healthcare do you advocate instead of the Republican created ACA private enterprise model?
02-13-2014 , 02:49 PM
It's like Republicans forgot how the executive branch has constitutional flexibility in how laws get executed once we had a black president.
02-13-2014 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
It's like Republicans forgot how the executive branch has constitutional flexibility in how laws get executed once we had a black president.
Why are you playing the race card?
02-13-2014 , 03:53 PM
Because it's there.
02-13-2014 , 06:07 PM
Humana's customer service is literally no better than that provided by healthcare.gov, friggin idiots.
02-13-2014 , 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
It's like Republicans forgot how the executive branch has constitutional flexibility in how laws get executed once we had a black president.
Like, adios, remember when you voted for this guy?

Quote:
MITT ROMNEY: On day one of my administration, I'll direct the secretary of Health and Human Services to grant a waiver from Obamacare to all 50 states. And then I'll go about getting it repealed.


You boys can lie to yourselves as much as you want, but don't lie to us. It's insulting.
02-13-2014 , 08:47 PM
Yea because businesses never let people go to cut costs.
02-14-2014 , 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
1. I think it's safe to say that we don't need to pretend this **** from you people is borne from principled support of a weak executive branch. The freakout over Obama's executive orders pretty well proved that.

So given that,

2. Isn't a delay of the employer mandate WHAT YOU WANT?

****ing Christ do any of you have any actual goddamn policy views?


P.S. Sometimes it's fun to leave EVEN THE LIBERAL WASHINGTON POST's editorial section and check out the harder news:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...nt-projection/
Their policy views could be wrapped up under the banner of "Oppositionists".
02-14-2014 , 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenningst77
Not really surprising


The law doesn't work well unless people/businesses are compelled to get insurance
Not really true because all that suffers then is the money used to pay for everything. Ironically that just pushes everything closer to single payer, as the government is using other funds to pay for everything.

Every time republicans have tried to take a little victory in this saga it has always ended being something that just expedites the move to single payer.
02-15-2014 , 02:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
It's like Republicans forgot how the executive branch has constitutional flexibility in how laws get executed once we had a black president.
King Obama has ruled in the interest of the common folks, he would never put politics before the people. Hail to the king! Long live the king!
02-15-2014 , 03:10 AM
Aw, you made such a good post in unchained about how poorly Obama has done for the economics of African Americans while in office. But then midnight hit and it's back to this garbage. What are you, a gremlin?
02-15-2014 , 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
It's like Republicans forgot how the executive branch has constitutional flexibility in how laws get executed once we had a black president.
You can find commentary outside the GOP that Obama has taken unprecedented actions in restructuring Obamacare (WAPO editorial I posted above for one, others exist). Hard for the laymen to know if this is just the standard creep of executive power or something beyond. If the changes are made with the intent of improving implementation so be it. If the changes are being made to change the election dynamic in 2014 that is more troubling.
02-15-2014 , 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlelou
You can find commentary outside the GOP that Obama has taken unprecedented actions in restructuring Obamacare (WAPO editorial I posted above for one, others exist). Hard for the laymen to know if this is just the standard creep of executive power or something beyond. If the changes are made with the intent of improving implementation so be it. If the changes are being made to change the election dynamic in 2014 that is more troubling.
Very troubling to which people, exactly? I mean, Paul Ryan's clan of slack jawed yokels is FURIOUS about our lawless "King" Obama. Granted.

But, and I realize this is DANGEROUSLY CLOSE to actually thinking about health care policy, uh, how does that play out? People who otherwise would support universal health coverage vote GOP for #fullrepeal because of the WaPo editorial? Like, the point of your post here is that it's "unfair" or something for Obama to engage in policies THAT YOU WANTED HIM TO DO. Uggghh you were looking forward to running dishonest ads about Obamacare killing jobs!!! ITS NOT FAIR!!

Hey, seattle, any thoughts on how you voted for someone who promised to make even more sweeping changes via executive order? lol "troubling"
02-15-2014 , 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
King Obama has ruled in the interest of the common folks, he would never put politics before the people. Hail to the king! Long live the king!
Note: adios believes that delaying the employer mandate IS in the interest of the common folk, so this sarcastic tone makes this post absolute gibberish

It's stunning how after right wing media lied right to your face for all of 2012, you went right back to getting spoonfed all your opinions about 2014 from the exact same people. Oh this time it's totally not a bubble of telling angry white dudes what they want to hear, you can trust them. The man on the street is FURIOUS about King Obama's partial delay of the employer mandate.

Let's go to him live for his reaction:

"Uhh, is that something about Obamacare? I don't really know. I gotta get to work"
- Man on the Street
02-15-2014 , 01:50 PM
Just like judicial activism isn't really judicial activism when it's something you're for, I'm guessing executive orders aren't really executive orders when they're about something you're in favor of.
02-15-2014 , 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
Very troubling to which people, exactly? I mean, Paul Ryan's clan of slack jawed yokels is FURIOUS about our lawless "King" Obama. Granted.

But, and I realize this is DANGEROUSLY CLOSE to actually thinking about health care policy, uh, how does that play out? People who otherwise would support universal health coverage vote GOP for #fullrepeal because of the WaPo editorial? Like, the point of your post here is that it's "unfair" or something for Obama to engage in policies THAT YOU WANTED HIM TO DO. Uggghh you were looking forward to running dishonest ads about Obamacare killing jobs!!! ITS NOT FAIR!!

Hey, seattle, any thoughts on how you voted for someone who promised to make even more sweeping changes via executive order? lol "troubling"
More troubling to anyone that has a view wider than "I want my team to win in 2014" if you assume the worst case scenario that the changes were made for political reasons, illegally. The WAPO editorial board expressed this opinion it isn't entirely right wing pablum.
I conceded that this may not be the case it could be standard bureaucratic delays in implementing ground rules and a one year delay may be appropriate and the actions legal. I don't understand the minutia of the law or the roll out process to due to know.
This Romney said "this" isn't much of a gotcha. I assume you are still comfortable with Obama even though has said “I taught constitutional law for ten years. I take the Constitution very seriously. The biggest problems that were facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all, and that’s what I intend to reverse when I’m President of the United States of America.” We all recognize that candidates say stuff and only occasionally mean it.
02-15-2014 , 04:53 PM
Wait. So you voted for Romney because you thought he was LYING and would break his Day One promise?
02-15-2014 , 04:59 PM
Romney 2012: I only mean some of the **** I say. Man how did he lose?

Seattle, stop lying.

It absolutely was not that you thought Romney's executive order promise was overstepping the bounds of the Constitution but overlooked it, you didn't even think about it as controversial, because use of executive orders(use qua use, not use for goals you oppose) wasn't tyranny until roughly around the SOTU that the right wing starting mendaciously complaining about "King Obama"(because, ldo, the actual things Obama was using executive orders for were political winners for Democrats).

This is essentially a repeat of the 2009-10 right wing freakout over "czars". It's not that Bush had fewer or that you opposed the use of them under previous GOP presidents or the GOP czars did good stuff and Obama's did bad or whatever, it wasn't even an issue until the right wing media told you to be angry about it.

Lying to us about it is undignified.
02-15-2014 , 05:06 PM
Lol lying.
02-15-2014 , 05:16 PM
So you're telling me that Romney's 2012 promise to waive Obamacare by executive fiat was regarded as troublesome to you? Hell, to anyone?

National Review published Romney making the case himself:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...ar-mitt-romney

Maybe Andy McCarthy just wasn't around that day to remind everyone that they were letting him use their magazine to advocate monarchy.
02-15-2014 , 05:30 PM
I forgot about this issue. Here is a blurb from WAPO on the issue which seems reasonable enough with regards to exercising executive power.
Quote:
“Governor Romney’s Day One plan includes an executive order instructing federal agencies to return maximum possible authority to the states,” spokeswoman Andrea Saul said in an e-mail. “This will include as much flexibility as the law permits, including waivers wherever possible under the law. He will then begin the work of fully repealing Obamacare and replacing it with common-sense reforms that will ensure Americans have access to the highest quality health care in the world.”
02-15-2014 , 05:51 PM
Man, this was in 2010:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElliotR
Since this thread has only 8 hours to go I will post my one true disappointment this year:

adios

Maybe he was always a GOP shill, but I didn't used to think so. I used to think that he was an intelligent guy who took a thoughtful approach to issues even though he and I mostly disagreed on policy details. But since Obama's election he's resorted more and more to posting pure GOP talking points cribbed from the right-wing echo chamber. Most disappointing, though, was the support of Christine O'Donnell. Supporting one's party in general is of course understandable and indeed, is a cornerstone of US electoral politics. But when you start to believe that the worst your party puts up is better than some middle-of-the-roader from the other side, then you have gone off the deep end and started to put your party ahead of your country.

Seeing adios take this path made me a very sad panda.
And he's just gotten worse and worse and worse.
02-15-2014 , 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlelou
I forgot about this issue. Here is a blurb from WAPO on the issue which seems reasonable enough with regards to exercising executive power.
You didn't "forget" about this issue, at the time use of executive authority to delay or waive Obamacare was an EXPLICIT GOP POLICY GOAL. It wasn't an issue that you forgot, it wasn't an issue at all! That quote(by a Romney spokeswoman, mind you) doesn't address IF Romney has that authority, it goes without saying he does. The actual issue of that day back then was whether Romney hated Obamacare enough.


But when Obama did it, oh, yeah, it's very troubling. Very troubling indeed.
02-15-2014 , 06:56 PM
But seattle because you're just such a principled guy with sincere concerns about executive overreach, I'm glad I can put you at ease by quoting this blurb from the Washington Examiner:
Quote:
“There is no question that this president has been judicious in his use of executive actions,” Carney told reporters
02-15-2014 , 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
But when Obama did it, oh, yeah, it's very troubling. Very troubling indeed.
Like a monarch, even.

      
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