The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 237: Back to Court - Page 414 - Politics and Economics

The medicaid money has socialism juice on it. There's literally nothing more than that. A medicaid expansion that had passed independently in 2007 or whatever would've been fine. But this was passed as part of the SINGLE WORST PIECE OF LEGISLATION IN HISTORY.

02-08-2014 , 10:44 PM

#10328

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

citation needed

Like a page ago ikes said he supported Obamacare, guys, and it was totally NOT a dodge to cover up about how he is incapable of understanding legislation on a policy level.

But independently, oh man he hates being reminded(just as seattle does) that he is an adherent of a political philosophy carefully constructed to appeal to hicks and racist uncles. Be proud of your heartland values, guys. College folk is elitists.

02-08-2014 , 10:49 PM

#10329

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

There's the obvious political angle. Obamacare is super unpopular, and running against it is clearly the right political play. This is magnified in red states.

The fairly shaky reasoned principle is that it creates a new set of liabilities for the states. The liabilities comes with federal money of course, but that doesn't necessarily remain forever, and there is still an additional cost to the state.

02-08-2014 , 10:50 PM

#10330

Riverman

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Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 73,135

There are really two things going on:

1. They don't ****ing care about people having health care.
2. It's about belonging to a group above all else.

02-08-2014 , 10:50 PM

#10331

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

What do you think the typical education level of a self-professed libertarian is fly? You want things one way, but it's the other bro.

02-08-2014 , 10:54 PM

#10332

Riverman

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02-08-2014 , 11:11 PM

#10333

Oroku$aki

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

That's so bizarre (and par for the course.) And the feds were gonna cover the vast majority of the expansion? You'd think a serious downside would exist, and could be clearly articulated.

02-08-2014 , 11:24 PM

#10334

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

What do you think the typical education level of a self-professed libertarian is fly? You want things one way, but it's the other bro.

Uh, what are you talking about?

I mean, if this is about you instead of generic Obamacare opposition, that's great, but we don't need to talk about typical libertarians. We can just talk about you. And as education level is just a proxy for being informed in this debate, again, we can talk about you.

You, ikestoys, have no ****ing idea what Obamacare does. You don't even know how to find out. You oppose it anyway, because of a grudge you bear against all the people who laugh at your most cherished beliefs. #StandwithPhil, dude.

02-08-2014 , 11:28 PM

#10335

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

You accusing me of ignorance is cute. You're so far behind me you couldn't see me if I gave you the bird.

02-08-2014 , 11:32 PM

#10336

schu_22

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02-09-2014 , 12:31 AM

#10337

maxtower

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Lots of ideological Turing test fail going on in this thread.

02-09-2014 , 02:48 AM

#10338

jenningst77

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 4,108

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oroku$aki

That's so bizarre (and par for the course.) And the feds were gonna cover the vast majority of the expansion? You'd think a serious downside would exist, and could be clearly articulated.

The worst part is that the whole "we can't trust the government to hold up their end of the bargain" doesn't even hold any weight since they can write it into the medicaid expansion bill that they can cut expansion if the federal government stops paying it's 90%. So then they just move the goalposts and say something about adding to the national debt is bad anyway, something something, future generations of americans saddled with our debts, something something.

02-09-2014 , 03:09 AM

#10339

grizy

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 20,631

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oroku$aki

That's so bizarre (and par for the course.) And the feds were gonna cover the vast majority of the expansion? You'd think a serious downside would exist, and could be clearly articulated.

They are standing on principle. Perry called the decision "philosophical."

02-09-2014 , 09:51 AM

#10340

adios

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jenningst77

States actually have to balance their budgets. The Feds fund the entire expansion for a few years but not forever.

02-09-2014 , 12:01 PM

#10341

Benholio

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For the sake of reference, here is the information for the Federal funding for the Medicaid expansion:

Quote:

‘‘(A) 100 percent for calendar quarters in 2014, 2015,
and 2016;
‘‘(B) 95 percent for calendar quarters in 2017;
‘‘(C) 94 percent for calendar quarters in 2018;
‘‘(D) 93 percent for calendar quarters in 2019; and
‘‘(E) 90 percent for calendar quarters in 2020 and each
year thereafter.’’; and

source: HCERA

02-09-2014 , 12:06 PM

#10342

schu_22

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Man you'd think that your everyday citizen would be thrilled that the federal government is footing the bill for 90% of the medicaid expansion in their state and outraged that their state would rather flip the bird to Obama rather than pay only a 10% cut of the medical care for the poor-ish. Oh right, most people are completely unaware of the medicaid expansion, don't know what obamacare even does, and hate the law based on principles that they've made up inside their mind rather than examining actual facts and the circumstances of reality.

02-09-2014 , 12:32 PM

#10343

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Yeah, voters don't make rational decisions... duh.

02-09-2014 , 01:10 PM

#10344

schu_22

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Yeah, voters don't make rational decisions... duh.

No **** sherlock.

Do find it funny that a lot of your anti-obamacare arguments are based on how unpopular it is. Yet you are conceding that opposing obamacare for uneducated reasons is irrational, no?

02-09-2014 , 01:14 PM

#10345

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by schu_22

Are my arguments 'against obamacare' based on how unpopular it is? Or am I winning a long standing argument about whether or not support for Obamacare would increase as it was implemented?

Quick answer: It's the latter bro. You didn't post much in politics in 2009, but back then Obamacare was unpopular and Democrats here made bold assertions about how popular it would be. Big arguments were had if it was popular (it wasn't, but people liked the freebies). When those were lost, it was going to be popular later. I suppose it may be popular, but the ****ty rollout is going to hold back popularity for a long time.

02-09-2014 , 01:40 PM

#10346

JohnEPark

grinder

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 598

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

I suppose it may be popular one day, but the ****ty rollout is going to hold back popularity for a long time.

lol

Last edited by JohnEPark; 02-09-2014 at 01:52 PM. Reason: to alleviate ikes's misunderstanding of my post

02-09-2014 , 01:50 PM

#10347

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

oh snap he missed a one day, GOT EM!

02-09-2014 , 02:00 PM

#10348

adios

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Benholio

For the sake of reference, here is the information for the Federal funding for the Medicaid expansion:

source: HCERA

Right since laws never change there is no risk of costs increasing even more for states. Also since just about every state has a budget surplus, no problem adding more costs.

02-09-2014 , 02:05 PM

#10349

JohnEPark

grinder

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 598

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

oh snap he missed a one day, GOT EM!

not what i was loling at - see edit

my understanding of how things work itt is that obamacare supporters are constantly saying that obamacare will be popular eventually. you in turn respond with a new poll or graph or whatever showing how obamacare is unpopular today. so in your last post you're saying that you agree that it might be popular eventually? isn't that all anyone else has been saying itt?