Sorry for my ignorance but what law are you referring to? The stuff that was around when British slavers were plying their trade?

It will be impossible to conclusively say Britain would have been better off in the EU if we leave, presuming there is still an EU in a few years. Looking at all the problems within the EU (political ideology which cannot work the financials) I'd rather be out than in.

Interested where you get a negative growth rate from? All forecasts, even from the anti-leave brigade, are for positive growth rates. Even Carney the pessimist says there is a bigger danger to the EU than UK from Brexit.

Any deal that restricts the ability to high comparative advantage trade (e.g. bananas for manufactured goods) with the world in favour of thin comparative advantage trade (manufactured goods for manufactured goods) with the EU would be worse than no deal.

No deal means WTO tariffs, if you negotiate a deal worse than that obviously it's a bad deal.

Ah, ok. you believe there were no human rights laws in the UK prior to the EU.

I presume the rest of the non-EU world have no human rights at this moment either?

I can see that as a theoretical point, but doubt that there are in practice many opportunities for such trade. And in any case is financial services/German cars not a prime example of high comparative advantage?

The desperate threats to "remodel" the UK economy would imply that beneficial trade with the ex-EU world is not going to be easy.

Just list the laws. A right that isn't enforceable by law doesn't exist.

The USA felt the need to add some bits into its constitution when it went its own way, so presumably what we had at that time wasn't quite adequate.

And then I note it was quite some time before everyone in the UK had a vote.

Post WW2, the UK did sign the ECHR, but refused to enshrine it in domestic law. It was not until the EU era that the UK enshrined basic human rights in law.

Enjoy your indiscriminate surveillance i guess:
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...oopers-charter
https://www.ft.com/content/f847f522-...9-9445cac8966f

Magnificent.

Always gladdens the heart to see that Remainers still pursue the line of 'the plebs are too stupid to know what they're voting for'.

Without that rhetoric, we'd never have got the result we did.

Thank you.

That makes no sense. If you identified with the leave camp you weren't going to vote remain so it doesn't affect your decision when you are insulted. If you didn't identify with the leave camp you wouldn't feel insulted.

With deep irony you just emphasized your own lack of intellect by failing to construct the simplest of logical arguments successfully, while ironically complaining about being called out for a lack of intelligence.

What an astonishing basis on which to cast a vote that would have been. I personally thought there were a bunch of pretty persuasive arguments in favour of leaving.

I didn't realise huge numbers of Brexiters were special snowflakes taking monumental decisions based on meaningless personal slights. Now I understand that that's what made all the difference my respect for such people has only grown.

Depends on having the right exchange rate. We're in a better position now than before.

And no, when cars are exported in both different directions its a classic case of thin comparative advantage. Nothing wrong with that but it's important that politicians don't get seduced by the headline volume figures and overprioritise it in negotiations, to the detriment of the trade that really has an impact on quality of life. Germany also has a well developed financial services industry, somewhat more heavily regulated.

You know the UK didn't join the EU till 1972?

Interesting though. I think with the EU there is a kind of Napoleon effect. European nations have wildly differing views of Napoleon depending on what they already had when he came - in a lot of cases he replaced the arbitrary caprice of foreign lords with a system of order based on written law, albeit still foreign, which the locals perceived as an upgrade. In other countries he is seen as a foreign conqueror/dictator.

Same with the EU. Those countries that were already functioning when they joined, such as the UK, or also the Eastern European countries which had to wait so long to join after their revolutions and so have a view of what they could do on their own, are a lot more eurosceptic, whereas those countries that were basically third world, like recent military dictatorships when they joined such as Greece, Spain, Portugal, find it harder to imagine life as a free independent country because they've only done it for a short time.

Lol please read up on William Wilberforce and his work, the creation of the Welfare State and the creation of the NHS before you talk any more bollocks - and note these things were around in the UK long before the EU

I am so glad things are coming along nicely, and in a few years, we will be free of the lawmaking mechanisms that aren't based in the UK, free to pursue our own trade deals, and a significantly more free of the economic drag anchor that is the EU. The majority of people are behind May - so giving ukip less chance to penetrate parliament.


The only thing I'd like to see is that the labour party will actually soon right itself and dump Corbyn over the side, and start to become a decent opposition (Hilary Benn as leader imo) - I think a democracy without a decent opposition is on a road to corruption and autocracy.

Another thing that could make this better is Sturgeon call another indyref. I don't mind if it's win or lose, I just want the SNP to be ultimately seen as trolling their own country - which they will, whatever the result.

Thank goodness we have all these social media Marxists to tell us what to do and how to behave.

Also escaping from the federalist agenda of the EU is a big boon. And don't give me all that guff about no one wanting it - the EU want it. And until there was a mechanism where it was as easy to retract an EU game changer on this as to join up to one, that pressure would eventually lead to the superstate - or the break up of the EU.

And neither outcome was good for the UK to be part of.

Case in point about the newspapers telling people what to think: The first paragraph here is pure telegraph editorial. Pompous yet clipped to fit some arbitary pre-defined word count "The majority of people are behind May". And sure enough if you google it you can see it is almost an exact quote.

In the publishing world we call this cryptoamnesia-unconscious plagiarism. You see this a lot with right-wingers.

The third paragraph, viewed semantically, appears to come from a different person "I think this and I think that". This is the authentic tone of the poster, shrill and hollow as it is.

Of the top of my head, didn't a very recent poll put it at 57%?

Oh and you spotted I have a right wing bias when it comes to the EU. Well done, little trooper! You are really getting good at understanding things!

You really have no idea what I just wrote do you?

****ing hell.

opposition to the eu being a right wing cause is still silly. the eu is one of the better guarantees we have for classical liberalism and market economies. it's basically just because it's full of foreigners.

i have a lot more sympathy for the old left ala corbyn that hates it because it prevents them from nationalising industries.

I recognised your rather juvenile tactic of pigeonholing with pseudoscientific terminology as a belittling mechanism.

Your so cute trying that, I assume you're young and it kind of works with your similarly aged friends.

It wasn't difficult to understand. You were using phrases from newspapers because you don't have an original thought in your head.

On a forum of advantage players I shouldn't have to dumb down everything I write.

Slavery wasn't abolished till the mid 19th century (and still with taxpayers compo to the slavers not the enslaved).

The NHS/Welfare state were set up as government insurance schemes essentially to deal with market failure and are nothing to do with "rights".

As I said above, the UK resisted the introduction of domestic human rights legislation until pressured to do so by the EU. You can bluff and bluster as much as you like, but this is the truth.

Ironically, when I read this I just think of Owen Jones - so much for cryptoamnesia-unconscious plagiarism.

So they didn't have ER HR legislation until the EU. Obviously. But there was no HR crisis in the UK before that. Common law and local legislation was doing a fine job of applying common sense ethics. It is perfectly likely the same law gets enacted here if the EU never existed, as the demand for it emerged outside of Brussels.