Curious. A deal that threatens the existence of the union seems to be worse than no deal at all. Under basic negotiation theory, wouldn't a deal like that be dismissed from possible outcomes right away?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best...ated_agreement

OMFG FORMER State actors make statements saying they should act in their own collective self interest, who would have believed?

Meanwhile while Theresa May has to prostitute herself and the UK to Trump, DieDumber remains totally silent.

Lol best exchange of the thread.

Not sure he still doesn't get what you wrote.

im so over this thing. british tabloids and fat blokes in pubs spending the next two year freaking out over every silly (often mistranslated) sentence from former european politicians is going to be excruciating.

the eu should just hand over a paper with about 5 possible options, norway/switzerland/canada/turkey/albania/wto etc., and the let the uk spend the next 2 years on its own arguing over which one to chose.

I think uk should just wto asap. Whatever gets negotiated will get vetoed by some angry faction of the eu, so it's pointless to even try, and will just slow the uk getting trade deals elsewhere.



In other news: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38841747

Bank of England sharply raises 2017 growth outlook

It expects the economy to grow 2% in 2017, up from a November forecast of 1.4%, which was itself an upgrade from the 0.8% forecast made in August.


Boom Boom shake the room.

In other Brexit news, Dianne Abbot is getting a slagging from another Labour MP for ducking the Article 50 vote

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

it'll be tough creating a superstate when everything keeps getting vetoed :-/

2% growth is a boom now?

Obviously all those politicians with a veto over a super state will commit political suicide for themselves and their parties and not use them.

Is this the Bank of England that you europhobes were complaining predicted a recession if Brexit was passed?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe these predictions have a huge amount of compound of error associated with them and have proven historically to be no more accurate than chimpanzees throwing darts at a graph?

I'd add: economic growth figures have not been telling an accurate story for a decade or more. The government keeps printing money and giving it to bankers so their wealth increases and so does that of the country: but it is not meaningful growth in any practical sense.

So what you'e saying is that when Gove said we shouldn't rely on economic experts, you think he was right?


You know a lot of leave voters agree with you too - we thought it was nonsense too.


Interesting a remainer like you actually agrees with this view when it favours your agenda...

UK Trade is starting to shift away from the EU and towards the USA. It's may not seem much but it's just the tip of the iceberg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38851097

Do you think you should be taken seriously if you draw parallels between the current refugee situation and the Nazis?

what is the uk going to do when trump tears up the iran deal, but the rEU and iran itself just continues with it? stand strong with may's new bff even when it's nonsense?

I hope Trump didn't try to grab May by the pussy

I don't mind whether you take me seriously or not. What's your own explanation for the rise in extreme nationalism, if not German behaviour towards the V4 countries. What's changed recently?

Or are we going to get post-factual and say that there isn't a special sensitivity to taking orders from the Germans? Or they aren't seeking living space for people they don't want in the V4 countries? Or there isn't an uptick in extreme nationalism?

These countries have been always this way. It just never made the news. As long as its just tourists who bring money to these countries all is fine but as soon as they have to give something they show their true colours.

What alternatives have the V4 provided to the suggested solutions and which steps have they taken other than crying and complaining.
Poland for example was part of the force invading Iraq in 2003. They should keep their mouth shut.

You are just worried because Slowakia is doing nice within the EU. Still they attracted those jobs with cheap labour. If you think these countries are better outside of the EU. Just leave. Since the income level in Slowakia isn't high enough to buy all these produced cars they need the export market. Outside of the EU they would face the same problems like the Uk. The UK has at least a reasonable market to offer. V4 has not. France and Spain wouldn't mind a shift of production in case V4 wants to leave.

Which is what a nazi would say....

Actually, you are right. Whatever the nazis were, they weren't stupid, dribbling idiots.

Let's take Hungary as an example. Orban has marched the country towards authoritarianism long before the refugee crisis.
Now during the crisis the authoritarian leader of Hungary acted like an authoritarian and the people who previously liked him for being an authoritarian still like him. No surprise there.

In Poland the conservative Law and Justice party won the election in 2015 after the remarks made by Angela Merkel regarding the refugees. One could assume some causality there but their party's candidate already won the presidential election earlier that year. This was before Merkel's statement and suggests there might be another explanation. Maybe someone who has more than my superficial insight can comment.

I know very little about the politics of Slovakia and the Czech republic. What I can say is that authoritarians and fascists do quite well all over Eastern Europe. My personal theory is that it takes time before an appreciation for a democratic culture can take root and flourish in a country. We can see this in Germany where the far-right nationalist NPD gets about 1% in the Western states whereas they can get ~5% in the states of the former GDR.

In other words, Merkel might have stoked the fire but the forest was already burning.

My Bold

And this will fan the flames, a smoldering fire that has gone unnoticed by most. Youth unemployment rate (those 18 - 25 years old) in Europe, the figures, even given margin of error,are staggering:

youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/

It is important to note the energy of youthful people and there ease at being lead by the nose, and the pent up potential of young people and damage to opportunity that is being so frustrated by massive unemployment - to say nothing of the drag on the respective economies as a whole.

The march toward authoritarian-style governments will continue and progress for the foreseeable future. Europe is in much deeper trouble than what most see. Italy, the largest EU industrial country in trouble, will probably implode first.

A bold prediction, but given the state of Italy's banks a reasonable one, though some French, Spanish, German and UK banks are also highly vulnerable due to excessive debts and derivative liabilities stacked up over many years.

nobody is imploding. the danger, as always, comes from them electing horrible politicians.

Precisely the reverse. I have never trusted and will never trust any economic experts. For the simple reason they are not in any practical sense, expert. Prediction beyond a trivial amount of time is impossible for fundamental mathematical reasons.

What Gove said is something all politicians say when they disagree with the experts. They forget this when an expert flatters them.

Let's be clear about this: it is impossible to work out what will happen extrapolating on the basis of data sets. Britain's economic fortunes are not solely dependent on the EU. If the government makes wise decisions it will pay off in the long-term in spite of Brexit.

I suspect it will fail, this will be partly because of Brexit but mainly because the government is composed of really f***ing stupid people who have six months to come up with a plan and still haven't managed to do so. Likely they would have failed if they'd stayed in the EU.