Comprehension breakdown

US and UK film/tv industries are both going to get murdered by China and Mid East countries.

I don't believe trade deals involving services should include the freedom of movement. The EU does but then it agrees deals with i.e South Africa where they seek to remove this on discriminatory grounds.

Also I believe, as common sense dictates, the UK infrastructure can only support so many immigrants per year. I'm perfectly happy for that amount to come into the UK and I believe the immigrants should be allowed in based on priority without discrimination on nationality.

You think its entirely reasonably for the EU to grant preferential treatment to someone living in poverty in i.e Romania over someone starving to death in Africa.

You're the racist, keep trying to convince yourself EU discrimination is ok.

This is what you present as the central hub of your anti-immigration views, but common sense dictates the opposite - that in fact working immigrants pay taxes and contribute far more per capita to the exchequor than native Brits over the course of a lifetime, so the infrastructure is expandable; so much so that I think there are other, darker, reasons for your oft-repeated stance.

@richdog
Are you actually universally opposed to all (non-global) deals containing labor-market / visa related provisions? By your logic all of them would be immoral.

lol no one believes you. A significant number of the non-stupid brexit voters are racists, deal with it, they're your allies.

James Bond won't be able to sip Cocktails in Monaco any more?

**** Brexit! Triple **** it!!!

That's a stupid attempt to draw a parallel. The reason the EU has no border controls for EU citizens is to allow free movement of services between EU countries, one of the fundamental requisites of the free trade zone. Think about it and consider why this is different to immigration control with the RoW.

Nobody who starves to death will make it to Europe? I think for Africa free movement is far less important than our ways of running business. Flooding Africa with goods we dont need anymore to kill off chances for small businesses there. Protecting our acriculture sector with tariff. Fishing around Africa and destroying business and livelihood of these people.

What if I had no problems with free movement all over the world? What will be your excuse if the EU would open the borders to everyone if you can make a living and dont depend on welfare(and have no criminal background)? You would still leave but now for your real reason that you dont want too many immigrants in your country. I believe that everyone should have the same chance because he can't chose where he/she was born. And I believe that our wealth is built on a lot of blood over the years and centuries.
You think that the UK or any other country should care for their people first. But if you honestly believe that the situation will improve without immigrants then I dont know what to tell you. The money should be there. Its an allocation problem. But hell you are probably a Libertarian as well and despise welfare and so on.

No, I mean a future federal UK of a yet to be determined nature - perhaps they could retain their own military for example, and much of their law-making ability so they wouldn't be occupied as you describe it. Yet I think almost all Irish people would reject such a notion a priori, just as most British people would reject something called the United States of Europe a priori without waiting to find out what the rules of such an organization, actually the word is "country", would be.

Who actually came up with this 4 freedoms stuff?

Those of you who like the EU, do you think it needs reform?

If so, what sort of reform?

Ireland was under British rule for centuries (and part of it still is), and there's still some resentment there (particularly about the Potato Famine of course), so obviously Irish people would reject any such idea regardless of what the rules of the organisation were. It's a barmy parallel to draw and I don't see where you're going with it.

Would have to remove the monarchy as the head of state could not be the Queen of England, that would provide a very justified reason not to want to be in a federalised UK.

Maybe move the administrative centre to Dublin.

Its still apples and oranges though, I mentioned a geographic area, Europe, (not EU) not a pre existing political entity UK, a political entity that Southern Ireland has had a very deeply problematic relationship with and has massive cultural baggage with.

If you wanted to remove the concept of and cultural history of UK from the geographic area then we would be much closer to apples and apples.

As it stands an a-priori rejection of a federalised UK is technical bigotry, but it is far from simple bigotry.

good for them, but it's not something they can influence. you dont understand just how contradictory it is to predict either the break up of the eu or a genuine united states of europe. if breakup is even remotely possible then it's guaranteed that there will be no will at all for treaty changes (and there isnt).

Yes, federalization on trade, defence, borders, and thats about it.

Make it properly democtratic, and then let each country do whatever they want with all other government policies.

Job done.

dont see why anyone should care about avoiding nato. the americans are addicted to their guns. it seems perfectly fine to be freeriding their craziness a bit.

the eu could in theory already apply mandatory refugee quotas, but it's not going to happen for the same reason that it's never going to happen: too much public resistance.

and that's alright. the eu is very good at some stuff and the rest will just have to be up to the countries themselves. it doesnt have to solve every problem in the world.

Is shared culture, history and values the new way of saying whites only?

I've only seen it in this context.

Because of course British culture, history and values is all about endless waves of immigration going back to pre history. There has never been a time in British history when we weren't being improved by migrants, initially from Europe then as technology improved from further away.

Hopefully British exit and the racist isolationists don't cause our culture to peak.

OMG it's all about migrants for you. Give it a rest, okay?

Think about how needing to kowtow to the EU for trade deals is one of the many ways nations give up power to a more and more remote centralisation - because it seems the route of least resistance.

Isn't it screamingly obvious that the EU feeds on gaining that power, one way or another. There gets a point where power only exists to gather more power to itself. It's an imperative of successful power structures. Organisations that don't do this will eventually dissolve, organisations that do will just grow and grow.

When mature parliaments start to cede their power upwards and allow the power to gather in a place where it is more and more disconnected from the people it is supposed to represent, then I worry. You allow that, then you are on the road to despotism and a police state.

I personally feel the nation state is the largest any supposed democratic state should grow. After that, nation states form deals and possibly trade areas for themselves, but ultimately the nation state does answer to its electorate. Anything bigger and more disconnected will be a road to disaster. I truly believe that.

Go read 1984. It might actually give you some insight in the way power drifts upwards when people let it happen, and the eventual outcome of that.

Swing and miss fella.

Somali migrants create significant amounts of wealth through entrepreneurship.

Their influence given they are 0.08% of the population is significant.

We are getting into the second generation now given almost all arrived literally in my lifetime. The influence they will have in the future is impossible to judge but history has shown it will be positive.

When someone is talking about migrants then it is about migrants.

Also the entire ****ing referendum was about migrants.

The rest of your post reads like the ramblings of a drunk conspiracy nut. Come back when you are sober.

And you're naive. If I were drunk, by tomorrow I'd be sober, and you'd still be naive.


I can see your obsession with migrants makes discourse pointless, so please ignore my posts in this thread from now on, and I will return the favour.

I don't intend to be rude to you, you seem an okay and well meaning chap and passionate in your beliefs, but I think we'd both be happier not wasting each other's time. Cool?

It happened last year, QMV was used for the first time in this area.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...refugee-quota/

The results you predict, specifically the far right on the brink of the Austrian presidency and 8% for neo Nazis in the Slovak general election are already happening. That isn't too much public resistance for the EU though.

A federal Europe would grow out of the EU so the difference is just terminology but ....

So let's call it a federal British Isles then. They would still understandably reject it out of hand, just as you would reject joining the USA without waiting to hear the results of entry negotiations.

But only the people who don't share your euro-nationalism are bigots.

Keep going with the Gordon Brown Rochdale school of politics. You're doing great.

I see it very differently to most of the remainers here.

The Euro zone is very likely to survive and move increasingly towards a fiscal union. That will inevitably lead to more political union, more democracy and eventually some form of superstate that grows as more countries will join that Euro zone. I doubt it's possible for the Euro zone to survive without this happening.

How the UK would have handled it is very hard to say but it's easy to imagine that even if we had remained, N.Ireland and Scotland would likely have eventually joined the Euro zone as demographics and a one day more fashionable Euro led to more pressure for a split up of the UK - leaving may have sped that up. Then who knows but increasing integration could easily lead to the pound being effectively in a kind of ERM, then it's a very short hop.

I wanted the UK to be part of this Europe with eventually all the opt outs withering away. It could well still happen (even assuming brexit happens) by a different path as a dual Kingdom of England/Wales may be all that's left and eventually decide to rejoin.