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April LC Thread: Special "No Collusion" Survivor White House Edition April LC Thread: Special "No Collusion" Survivor White House Edition
View Poll Results: Who will NOT survive the month of April?
Rod Rosenstein
15 36.59%
Mike Pompeo
0 0%
Sarah Huckabee Sanders
2 4.88%
Kjrstyn Njielessen
9 21.95%
Wilbur Ross
1 2.44%
Kellyanne Conway
0 0%
Rudy Giuliani
3 7.32%
Jared Kushner
1 2.44%
Mick Mulvaney
5 12.20%
Write-in
5 12.20%

04-02-2019 , 02:06 AM
04-02-2019 , 02:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
That's mostly true. But I do believe that if there were fewer exiles then there would be fewer complaints coming to Mason's attention and I also believe people would be freer to speak their mind on all sides. It's the being kicked out that people complain about. They don't usually complain about other posters just being mean to them.
ldo

Despite the odd monumental cock up, the key purpose of the more modding I dont think you like very much was to square the circle between preventing racist/etc posting while NOT having to exclude people. It was evolving and Well Named's latest proposed rules are the next iteration - give him his own forum - use force if required
04-02-2019 , 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D
All you're saying is your basic.
*you're
04-02-2019 , 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder
So you're telling me that you think it's okay for you to call someone an attention whore, but not for any man to call any person, including other men, an attention whore?

The problem you're going to have here in comparing it to the n-word, is that you've got a very different argument. I've actually made the same type of argument you're making about that word on the radio before in my old broadcasting career, arguing with one listener after another on a sports call-in show about it.

However, the n-word does not have any practical use in language. It was first put into dictionaries in the 1860s and was a racial slur from the start.

"Whore" can be used in a non-offensive sense, and has been historically. A whore is someone who sells themselves sexually for money, and thus using derivatives of that to describe politicians who sell themselves to donors/corporations/etc/etc shouldn't be offensive in my opinion.

So while I could agree with your argument on a word like "slut" which I basically never use, with rare exceptions, I don't think it applies to derivative uses of this word. I wouldn't call an actual prostitute that word, or any other sex worker, and I'd probably try to avoid even using those derivatives for female politicians to avoid being sexist, but it's really not the word itself that should be offensive, it's the way in which it's used. My guess is that most women would not have a problem calling various people corporate whores, attention whores, etc... if I prove to be wrong about that, and a bunch of women were to say, "No, any use at all of that word in any way is offensive," then I'd stop using it in any way.

Also, the other major problem with your argument is that the main reason that most black people will give for why they use the n-word and derivatives of it and why it's okay is that they are turning it into a term of endearment. That's not what you're talking about, in using forms like "corporate whore" or "attention whore." If you were talking about walking up to a female friend and calling her the w-word as a term of endearment, then you would be getting closer to using the same argument as people use for the n-word, one I happen to agree with.

I assume you will think that makes me part of the problem, and you have a right to your opinion.
If you would only renounce that Greenland comment I could replace Chris V with you as ours smartest poster.
04-02-2019 , 02:25 AM
I like Well Named and i dont know his new rules but if he got a forum his would boot a lot of the same people who got exiled from here id guess.
04-02-2019 , 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
If you would only renounce that Greenland comment I could replace Chris V with you as ours smartest poster.
Mansplaining to women is never a smart move. Your proclamation of intelligence rights have been revoked.
04-02-2019 , 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
I like Well Named and i dont know his new rules but if he got a forum his would boot a lot of the same people who got exiled from here id guess.
He linked to his 'new rules' a few posts ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
If you want to understand how I think about it, cf. the draft rules on "controversial or offensive topics" which I suggested in this thread. If you want to understand my reasoning, I could try to explain it more but I don't want to derail this thread that much right now. Maybe see here.

To your specific questions: calling "brown people from ****hole countries" evil would have fallen afoul of the third bullet point and thus not be tolerated. So might language referring to other immigrants, depending on the specifics. But I'd not forbid literally any posting of support for Trump's immigration policies -- including family separation -- offensive though I find those policies.
04-02-2019 , 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D
Mansplaining to women is never a smart move.
Not so sure crossnerd would be on board with not comment.
04-02-2019 , 03:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
Not so sure crossnerd would be on board with not comment.
I don't think she'd mind it the way I meant it. Which is cuse's mansplaining words to someone offended by said words is patriarchal.
04-02-2019 , 03:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
He linked to his 'new rules' a few posts ago
One links to the mod forum and even tough thats where the best petty bickering probably is they dont let me lurk that for some reason. With the other i dont think most of the exiles would cut the mustard. As soon as Islam came up.

Quote:
Hate speech, slurs, and dehumanizing language about large groups of people or social categories will not be tolerated. You should make an effort to avoid unnecessarily broad or prejudicial generalizations.
04-02-2019 , 03:20 AM
Indeed. That's a big part of what I called being PC.

I can't read the mod link either but WN provided a snippit in post #103

Quote:
Tolerated in the context of forum moderation means not banning people or censoring them when they express those views. It doesn't mean not ostracizing them. It doesn't mean agreeing with them or compromising with them in any political sense. Toleration here only means allowing the conversation, including allowing others to rebuke them in very strong terms.

Again, the (vague) criteria I've suggested for evaluating where on the spectrum to draw the line is based on how mainstream a position is. If a policy or idea is part of the GOP platform, it should be a legitimate topic of political conversation, and people should be allowed to express support for that policy or idea. If (for example) the view that transgender identity isn't "real" is the dominant view in our society, it should be a legitimate topic of conversation. Anti-semitic conspiracy theories are not legitimate topics. Obviously there are gray areas and difficult judgement calls in between, but that is what moderation is about.

From my perspective, tolerance for discussion makes sense as much from the standpoint of consciousness raising and social activism as it does from any other standpoint. You can't effectively ostracize people out of holding views you disagree with when half the population holds those views. You can when it's only 10%.
I think we can agree he would exile a subset of the people who would be exiled from here. How big a subset remains to be seen (possibly)
04-02-2019 , 03:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
If you would only renounce that Greenland comment I could replace Chris V with you as ours smartest poster.
Seriously David? These look like things someone who would be able to identify a bunch of countries on a map would say?





I mean, I know you're probably just messing with us on this whole Trump geography thing, but still... enough's enough lol...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D
I don't think she'd mind it the way I meant it. Which is cuse's mansplaining words to someone offended by said words is patriarchal.
It's only mainsplaining if it's condescending or patronizing. I don't think my post is either of those things. There's maybe one sentence that you could argue was condescending, and I didn't intend it that way but in re-reading it now, it may come across that way, for which I hereby offer an apology to Crossnerd.

I should not have said, "The problem you're going to have here," which can be deemed condescending. I should have said something like, "The problem I have with the argument you're making."

For that I am sorry.

I stand by the rest of the post as not being condescending or patronizing, nor sexist.
04-02-2019 , 03:38 AM
04-02-2019 , 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
i sort of was raised by wolves. i never thought of it as a racist image. if it's such an offensive avatar i really do wonder why nobody complained in the last 15 years? we've received loads of complaints about avatars and deleted many of them.

Id like to file a complaint about his new avatar.





I dont care for it.
04-02-2019 , 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder
Seriously David? These look like things someone who would be able to identify a bunch of countries on a map would say?





I mean, I know you're probably just messing with us on this whole Trump geography thing, but still... enough's enough lol...



It's only mainsplaining if it's condescending or patronizing. I don't think my post is either of those things. There's maybe one sentence that you could argue was condescending, and I didn't intend it that way but in re-reading it now, it may come across that way, for which I hereby offer an apology to Crossnerd.

I should not have said, "The problem you're going to have here," which can be deemed condescending. I should have said something like, "The problem I have with the argument you're making."

For that I am sorry.

I stand by the rest of the post as not being condescending or patronizing, nor sexist.
Trumps school maps show Greenland bigger than Australia. I'm sure Chris knew that. So you are still no2
04-02-2019 , 04:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
Trumps school maps show Greenland bigger than Australia. I'm sure Chris knew that. So you are still no2
I was trying to embed the wind and record deepness clips by the way, for some reason it added other threaded ones.

But yeah, I'm aware of that... But it has no bearing on my opinion. In fact I'd guess that most Americans are more likely to be able to identify Australia than Greenland.

Regardless, I'm not too worried about where you rank me... I went to Syracuse, I'm used to being on the bubble then doing some damage once we get into the dance.
04-02-2019 , 05:01 AM
Favorite SU team.





Lazarus Sims was underrated.
04-02-2019 , 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Cross,

Literally everyone here has agreed that we shouldn't use the w-word to describe Melania.
Uh, we had this exact same argument in September of 2017, (this thread, starts at #57393, goes for several pages). In fact, here I am making precisely Crossnerd's argument (a number of other posters made similar points):

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
This is the main issue here. Melania arguably prostituted herself. That doesn't make this an opportunity to disparage sex workers generally, which is what you're doing when you use "whore" as an epithet. It's similar to that discussion the other day, can't remember which thread, about people using the n-word as an epithet towards people who aren't black. "It's not racist, they're not black!". Yeah, no. "It's not misogynist, I'm just insulting Melania!". Also no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
"Whore" as a word carries around a whole lot of baggage about demonizing the sexual agency of women. It's not possible to use the word as an epithet and not be misogynist, just like it's not possible to use the n-word and not be racist.
There was pushback from several regulars, one of whom argued that "whore" is not a gendered word. And here we are again and people are still doing it. So I'm not sure "no need to argue Crossnerd, everyone's solid" is accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
If you would only renounce that Greenland comment I could replace Chris V with you as ours smartest poster.
I'm not entirely sure what cuse said about Trump and Greenland, but I'm pretty sure I am 100% on board with it.
04-02-2019 , 06:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd
Call her things that relate to the above. Don't call her a whore. I will not accept men calling "certain" women whores because they think its okay.

Its NOT OKAY.

YOU all don't get to pick and choose when to use that word. Its not an acceptable desciptor in ANY SENSE, and I won't tolerate it or abide by the rules of the forum in response to people who choose to use it.

I'm just letting you know. YOU guys might be okay with harboring the last bastion of hate- overt sexism- but I am not and will not sit quietly by while people use that sort of language.
I literally posted that people shouldn’t be using that word. I also think that defending one of the most terrible and monstrous people in American politics today (behind only all the other trumps except maybe Barron in terribleness) because somebody used a sexist trope against her is probably not the hill to die on here.

Edit: Sorry, just saw you were temp-banned and can’t respond.

Last edited by fxwacgesvrhdtf; 04-02-2019 at 06:59 AM.
04-02-2019 , 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth
No, It represents the way half the country thinks, and I now suspect with the "No Trump Russia Collusion" an the super strong economy, it'll grow.

Mason
Mason,

Millions and millions of people think that all jews are evil subhuman scum who should be violently wiped from the earth. Is that mainstream enough to be ok to be discussed in this forum? Perhaps I could mod a new forum called "should there be a second holocaust?". I'm on the no side at the moment but it doesn't help to have a closed mind about mainstream views. Maybe there's a convincing argument out there I just haven't heard yet.

Last edited by tomdemaine; 04-02-2019 at 07:03 AM.
04-02-2019 , 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyebooger
Not going to call Melanie a whore. Agree that language is not okay.

But she is a horrible person, full stop.
So a whoreable person?
04-02-2019 , 06:56 AM
Re the "mainstream", thing, stuff that roughly half the country believes also include that electrons are not smaller than atoms, that lasers work by focusing sound waves, that antibiotics kill viruses and that humans did not evolve from an earlier species of primate. Should we take these ideas seriously on 2+2? A study also showed that Fox News viewers answer less questions about current affairs correctly than people who watch no news at all (other studies have reached similar conclusions). In short, "it's mainstream and on Fox" is an extremely poor justification for taking something seriously. Qanon is mainstream.

Support for Trump is also a fringe position worldwide. "How much confidence do you have in President Trump" scores 10% in Germany, 9% in France, 7% in Spain when you COMBINE the "some" and "a lot" responses.
04-02-2019 , 07:01 AM
I went to my orientation as a member of the Australian Greens tonight. A federal election will be announced soon (this weekend, it's rumoured) so it's a good time to be getting involved. Apparently my wheelhouse of web development/database management is in high demand, not many environmentalist nerds, it would seem. Their policies page is here if anyone is interested.
04-02-2019 , 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
unchained was pretty good. all sides had pretty much uncensored freedom. i recall fly even liked it. it quickly went downhill after heavier moderation came in.
Lol u kidder
04-02-2019 , 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Re the "mainstream", thing, stuff that roughly half the country believes also include that electrons are not smaller than atoms, that lasers work by focusing sound waves, that antibiotics kill viruses and that humans did not evolve from an earlier species of primate. Should we take these ideas seriously on 2+2? A study also showed that Fox News viewers answer less questions about current affairs correctly than people who watch no news at all (other studies have reached similar conclusions). In short, "it's mainstream and on Fox" is an extremely poor justification for taking something seriously. Qanon is mainstream.

Support for Trump is also a fringe position worldwide. "How much confidence do you have in President Trump" scores 10% in Germany, 9% in France, 7% in Spain when you COMBINE the "some" and "a lot" responses.
Lol, come on dude, half the country thinks an electron is what makes your tv work, thinks that lasers work by magic, and doesn’t even know there is a difference between viruses and bacteria. Giving them credit that they even know that electrons and atoms are things, let alone which one is bigger is way too much credit.

Edit: I may be technically self-owning a bit on the tv thing.

      
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