From the article:

One common trait they found is suicide victims have an abnormal brain makeup but other factors contribute to whether or not a person follows through

so what? those are two really cool stories bro, thanks for sharing.

yea...and? seratonin is an endorphin that regulates mood, i fail to see how this is the least bit indicative of the point you're apparently trying to make, which is that every person who commits suicide is crazy and shouldn't be trusted to relate a coherent thought or assertion.

itt you equate mental instability with psychosis

no not psychosis.... simple lying.

to you, stockguy, the fact that somebody is so depressed that they feel they have nothing left to live for means that they are completely incapable of expressing their feelings or relating true/actual events from their lives. that's ridiculous, and shows how little you know about these things.

uhhhh I don't think he says anything close to that, just that we shouldn't take it as 100% gold truth.

Again, you continue to put words in my mouth.

Pretty much

Fair enough, but the parents have at least corroborated part of her note by their continued insistence to refer to her as their son and with male pronouns wouldn't you say?

Never said that either, simply said people who commit suicide are not in a right frame of mind - the science backs me up on that.

That and try to invent things, which the teen did not actually say.

Her note said "My mom started taking me to a therapist, but would only take me to christian therapists, (who were all very biased) so I never actually got the therapy I needed to cure me of my depression. I only got more christians telling me that I was selfish and wrong and that I should look to God for help."

From that some have concluded she under went conversion therapy and included electric shock etc.

Gee funny how the note and Pastor really are not at odds.

lord have mercy

That's exactly what ikes et al were getting at, they were just too afraid of the glue and glass to come out and say it.

I posted multiple time stuff to the effect of, 'Just say the kid was lying, at least then we'll all be on terra firma."

Maybe I need to restate.

There's a reasonable chance ikes et al ACTUALLY believed all the previous nonsensical arguments they were putting forth, but I was always under the impression they were just trying to avoid the bad look of immediately saying and/or having to resort to, 'YEAH BUT HE LYING THO'

posts #146 and #448, interview with the parents and then an article detailing how the parents moved to have all her tumblr posts, not just the suicide note, removed

post #751

Along with the horror I have a weird sense of respect that these guys actually WENT THERE with the whole calling a dead kid a liar business... While I deal with this emotional conundrum, here's a musical interlude:




short little tune with an amazing finale

It is not like the note was not published elsewhere. We don't need to guess what it said. It does not talk about conversion therapy. It talks about christian therapists. It supports what the pastor said. Now if you have a very broad definition of what is "conversion therapy" so broad it includes any "christian therapy" or assume a "christian therapist always practices conversion therapy" I suppose your back to the same page they both are telling the truth just the pastor has a narrower definition. But to draw the conclusion that some ITT that it involved electric shock or anything else is wrong and probably based on bigotry against religion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...r-highway.html

ogallalabob has it right. There is no claim of conversion therapy from any of the participants including the teen.

Going right back to the first sentence of the first post of this thread we have been led down a false path.

Some activist writes a blog about charging parents for something they didn't do and the gullible follow right along.

conversion therapy isn't like the end-all be-all of this thread, it's just come up in discussion because it's a method that is widely used by these unqualified and moronic christian "therapists"

what was really said? leelah said in her note that her parents forced her to go to "biased christian therapists", and one of the pastors or counsellors or whatever of the church they go to claims that they only tried to pray the gay away, stopping short of using such favored techniques of electroshock to the genitals, possibly not short of forced masturbation to hetero sex images.

now let's assume everybody is telling the truth. so what? one can still mock the biblethumpers in any case, and it's not because of "bigotry" towards the christian church. like they're somehow the victims here, lol.

Whatever happened to this forum? I remember when 2/3 of the forum were ACists and 1/4 were liberal and the rest something else, now it's just full of crazy nanny state authoritarians.

Seriously 5/6 years ago i didn't think I would say this. Ikes is one of, if not the most sensible poster you have on politics.

In relation to this thread charging the parents with anything is clearly counter-productive because they've probably already suffered enough, you know with them having to come to terms with the fact that their child was trans and is now dead.

No sane person would ban conversion therapy, maybe tag an 18+ (or with parents consent like a tatoo or something). And calling the bible an adult book of fairy tales is unbelievably offensive.

JFC, being a christian isn't immoral you know and I would want to allow religious people to practice their beliefs with as few exceptions as possible.

The acists were chased off due to a mass uprising of people that actually made sense and don't believe in an entirely bull**** system that is impossible to equate to reality

Wow, there's actually more to comment on than just the first sentence.

Lol at the Ikes comment.

How would you describe the bible if not an adult book of fairy tales? It's a bunch of stories (ostensibly intended for adults) that have little to no basis in historical fact and include outrageous, untestable claims.

Being a christian may not be immoral, but forcing Christianity onto children in an indoctrinating manner sure as hell is.

I assume you would replace Christianity with anything regarding a child's beliefs, whether religious or not?

This is pretty spot on

Anything that has no scientific evidence to it, of course. Are you saying you are generally for the indoctrination of any crazy belief to children?

So if they want to hate people who are different, that is ok? A parent shouldn't teach a child to respect everyone regardless of race, sexual orientation etc?