3rd grader shoots another 3rd grader. Yay guns! - Page 14 - Politics and Economics

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3rd grader shoots another 3rd grader. Yay guns!

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02-24-2012 , 03:38 PM

#326

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

Good one, goodie.

Please cite a post where I made an emotional appeal and simultaneously claimed it was LOGIC and called someone else ******ed AND managed to claim the other guy had the burden of proof despite the fact that my position entails making demands on them.

I can't take the time. You definately said I have the burden of proof. You absolutely made an emotional retort to my arguments, not sure if you said it was logic but I assume you think so. Not sure if you called me ******ed but you certainly were insulting. Someone else called me a moron though.

02-24-2012 , 03:38 PM

#327

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodie

Dude, I've said exactly the same thing as BASaint no less than 4 times in this thread (although not as eloquently).

Listen, you obviously don't like my condescending tone. I get it. Your, as the youngins like to say, "butt hurt". But it's not like you didn't come in here specifically to troll and flame people. I mean, it goes both ways.

no u

ez game, whoever says the other guy is butthurt first wins, right?

you're awful. BAsaint is NOT saying the same thing as you AT ALL. Yes, you both want to take the same side, but he's basically saying the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you are as far as reasoning goes.

02-24-2012 , 03:42 PM

#328

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Key

I don't think a single pro-gun person on here has a problem with someone else being anti-gun.

The problem comes when anti-gun people want to infringe upon the rights of pro-gun people.

Imagine if pro-gun, anti-car people said there weren't enough restrictions on your car and we just needed to take all cars away, and that how you felt about the subject didn't matter. You probably would feel pretty indignant.

They might even have a point that mass transit is safer and more cost-efficient, but they still have no right to tell you what you can and cannot do or decide for yourself.

I understand the "freedom" argument but unfortunately not everyone in the US is a responsible person. So yes, the government (and please understand I don't like the US government, I think it insanely poorly run and a pretty horrible entity in general but it's what we got) has to step in to make sure that there isn't gross misconduct. So, as much as you may not like it or may not even notice it in some cases, there are plenty of people right now telling you what you can and cannot do or decide for yourself. And quite of few of them really do help the greater good.

02-24-2012 , 03:45 PM

#329

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

In what way? He's certainly being nicer about it and absolutely being more eloquent about it but exactly HOW do you think he's saying something different?

And how old are you? I'm guess early 20's. I'm hoping early 20's or younger because if not, just wow.

02-24-2012 , 03:47 PM

#330

monkeylump

veteran

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 2,015

I don't want to infringe on your rights sir. Guns are cool for deer hunting and defending our country from enemies. Problem is you start taking away AK's and massive clips for handguns, which are pointless imo, and the pro-gun peeps start freaking the **** out.

The problem with the pro-gun people is that they have a hard time admitting that we have a major problem with the amount and types of guns in the USA.

02-24-2012 , 03:47 PM

#331

BASaint

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 14,826

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Key

I imagine that people who want to play around with TNT in their backyard are equally annoyed when told they can't. Your insinuation here is only meaningful if you take the stance that nothing should be regulated, and in that case we're back to personal nuclear weapons.

Whether there should be a line at all shouldn't really be up for debate imo, some stuff has to be regulated. the debate should center around where the line should fall. That's why the 'but cars' point is unhelpful.

02-24-2012 , 03:48 PM

#332

Low Key

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 33,327

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodie

He's certainly being nicer about it

whoa there! I know adults frequent this forum, but let's try to keep things civil!

02-24-2012 , 03:51 PM

#333

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodie

In what way? He's certainly being nicer about it and absolutely being more eloquent about it but exactly HOW do you think he's saying something different?

because he understands the difference between subjective opinions and objective facts, which you've claimed to understand but your posts demonstrate that you really aren't anywhere close to understanding.

02-24-2012 , 03:53 PM

#334

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeylump

The problem with the pro-gun people is that they have a hard time admitting that we have a major problem with the amount and types of guns in the USA.

I don't have a problem admitting that you have a major problem with it.

Other people have a major problem with gay guys getting married. Some other people have a problem with you playing poker. Those guys are also nosy busybodies and should mind their own ****ing business.

02-24-2012 , 03:56 PM

#335

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by BASaint

Whether there should be a line at all shouldn't really be up for debate imo, some stuff has to be regulated. the debate should center around where the line should fall. That's why the 'but cars' point is unhelpful.

That's exactly why the "cars tho" argument IS helpful.

Most people who make the "guns are bad and should be banned" argument are completely unaware of the concept of "where to draw the line". They use ******ed terms like "you can't argue against my objective opinion". "cars tho" illustrates the hole in their thinking perfectly.

If someone is already taking the "well we just need to put the line here" argument then yes, "cars tho" doesn't work.

02-24-2012 , 03:57 PM

#336

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

That's no kind of answer. He has the same opinion as me.

And when I said that he was saying the same thing as me, I was referring to his stance that comparing guns to baseballs in the context of this argument is illogical. This is what I've stated many times in the thread.

Did you miss that or something? So, again, show your work - How exactly is his STANCE (not how he's presenting it) different than mine?

02-24-2012 , 03:57 PM

#337

monkeylump

veteran

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 2,015

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

I wasn't talking to you and I have no interest in debating with a brick wall.

02-24-2012 , 04:03 PM

#338

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

You've brought it up a bunch so let me explain the "you can't argue against my opinion". I didn't exactly say that but what I was saying is that because guns haven't been regulated in this country the way I would like, nobody really knows what that would look like or what the negatives would be. Therefore it becomes difficult to formulate facts that back an argument against it. Whereas I can point to facts, even if you don't think they support my argument enough, that DO support my argument.

Does that make sense now? (seriously not being condescending, seriously asking if I need to clarify more).

02-24-2012 , 04:08 PM

#339

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodie

That's no kind of answer. He has the same opinion as me.

No, he doesn't

Here's yours:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodie

I think society would be better off without citizens owning guns. And to be honest, since that hasn't happened yet and we haven't measured the result, it's pretty hard to argue against me.

Cliffnotes: you can't disprove my subjective opinion, ergo I win

Here's his:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BASaint

Yes, but the anti-gun people think that the benefits of cars outweigh the risks. The pro-gun people think the same applies to guns. Both are reasonable, logical positions.

Cliffnotes: both sides here have subjective opinions so appealing to them is not a winning strategy.

That is exactly the opposite.

And the fact that you can't understand this yet you're calling other people ******ed is hilarious.

02-24-2012 , 04:11 PM

#340

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodie

You said EXACTLY that.

And you can't point to facts that support your argument. How are you going to OBJECTIVELY MEASURE how well-off society is? You have a utilitometer? The nobel prize committee would like to speak to you.

02-24-2012 , 04:20 PM

#341

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

No, he doesn't

Here's yours:

Cliffnotes: you can't disprove my subjective opinion, ergo I win

Here's his:

Cliffnotes: both sides here have subjective opinions so appealing to them is not a winning strategy.

That is exactly the opposite.

And the fact that you can't understand this yet you're calling other people ******ed is hilarious.

I'm going to be nice here where I could be insulting. The two arguments you cited are arguing two different things. And let me clear now, I completely agree with the quote from BASaint in this post and have said exactly the same thing elsewhere in the thread.

I explained further the argument you quoted from me so I hope you understand where I was coming from there.

02-24-2012 , 04:21 PM

#342

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

The facts I can point to are deaths caused by firearms. Whether you think they support my argument enough or not is up to you. But they do support my argument nonetheless.

02-24-2012 , 04:23 PM

#343

razrback

adept

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,138

Quote:

Whether there should be a line at all shouldn't really be up for debate imo, some stuff has to be regulated.

OHHHH I SEE NOW

02-24-2012 , 04:25 PM

#344

will1530

self-banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 5,773

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeylump

I don't want to infringe on your rights sir. Guns are cool for deer hunting and defending our country from enemies. Problem is you start taking away AK's and massive clips for handguns, which are pointless imo, and the pro-gun peeps start freaking the **** out.

The problem with the pro-gun people is that they have a hard time admitting that we have a major problem with the amount and types of guns in the USA.

lol,

I don't have an AK so I'll use my AR as an example, I'm sure an AR is just as scary to you as an AK. Tell me, what is the practical difference between my deer rifle and my AR-15?

Last edited by will1530; 02-24-2012 at 04:38 PM.

02-24-2012 , 04:26 PM

#345

BASaint

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 14,826

fwiw anyone who wants to slog through the 'where should the line be drawn and why' debate, it was done here recently.

cliffs:

Spoiler:

02-24-2012 , 04:27 PM

#346

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodie

The facts I can point to are deaths caused by firearms. Whether you think they support my argument enough or not is up to you. But they do support my argument nonetheless.

So your argument is that the costs outweigh the benefits, and your evidence is that there are some costs.

02-24-2012 , 04:33 PM

#347

bahbahmickey

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 15,749

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeylump

Happened in Bremerton, WA near where I live. My guess is that he got daddy's gun and brought it to school. Pretty sad and disgusting. Girl is in critical condition. Would love to hear what the pro-gun people have to say about this ****.

Agree w/ everyone ITT (except OP) who thinks America should be free.

02-24-2012 , 04:35 PM

#348

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

So your argument is that the costs outweigh the benefits, and your evidence is that there are some costs.

Umm, yes. Was that not clear?

02-24-2012 , 04:56 PM

#349

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodie

Umm, yes. Was that not clear?

No, it was perfectly clear.

That's why it was funny.

02-24-2012 , 05:10 PM

#350

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

No, it was perfectly clear.

That's why it was funny.

What exactly is funny about it? Seems reasonable. I think your stance is at least reasonable even though I disagree with it.

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