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2016 Presidential Election GAMEDAY THREAD 2016 Presidential Election GAMEDAY THREAD

11-09-2016 , 10:43 PM
11-09-2016 , 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love Sosa
I don't really know how I will survive knowing that Dunham, Amy Schumer, and Miley Cryrus will be leaving.

Oh wait, they're not actually leaving. The plus sized female "comedian" who occasionally says things that are barely funny (schumer) has already pulled the "I was just joking guys" card. Incredibly sad, but also hilarious - maybe she's funnier than we give her credit for.

Of course the U.S is still a great place to live, and full of great people. It's important to realize that the U.S government is separate from actual society. And most people around the world hate the U.S government, but embrace the people.
It's cute you think that Dunham, Schumer, Cyrus are who you need to stand guard against. Keep up the fight bro.
11-09-2016 , 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love Sosa
And most people around the world hate the U.S government, but embrace the people.
Dunno how much you travel, but I have found the latter part to be increasingly untrue.
11-09-2016 , 10:46 PM
Catching up on the past 30 hrs of posts ITT has been one of my favorite 2+2 experiences of all time.

Here is the best post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
Clinton lost because her supporters exhibited unnecessary contempt toward those who preferred Trump. Many of them were people who would normally have not have voted. Some of them forced themselves out of their chair not because they thought the country would be better off if Trump were president but rather because they wanted to punish those who were so publicly contemptuous of their mild inclination to pick Trump. When you bluff in NLH you shouldn't bet more than what is required to get the job done. Likewise if you are trying to persuade people you shouldn't push your argument to a point where it can backfire. I've been saying this for years.
11-09-2016 , 10:49 PM
11-09-2016 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkubus
Most of the Trumpers I know agree he's full of ****, and they like him for the fact he's so obvious about it. They fell they're being lied to either way, so you might as well go for the gusto.
As absurd as this is, it does touch on an important development that Hillary's crew has failed to recognize.

There's no question that what she says sounds a lot better than what Donald says. But overly pragmatic, robotic, bloodless, "pliable" candidates like Mitt Romney and Hillary repeatedly overlook the credibility factor.

You can't just say "I love ____ people and I'm going to make sure they have all the opportunities that every American deserves!" and then cash in those _____ people's votes. Not when you spent over a decade repeating lines like "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman" only to do a 180 the moment it became expedient.

She says one thing in Brazil, another thing to Goldman Sachs, something else in 2002, the opposite in 2012. Her words have become hollow and borderline meaningless, just like Mitt's did.

I honestly believe she would have won if she'd just said stuff like, "yea, I told Goldman execs more businessmen should go into politics....they paid me $250k for thirty minutes, of course I'll blow smoke up their ass!" (She thought she could get home without that openness, which was the miscalculation everyone made.)

Personally I think it's INSANE that "he says what he thinks" ended up getting Trump as much mileage as it did. But there's no question the Dems badly missed the boat on how ready the country was for less tact and more ad lib.
11-09-2016 , 10:49 PM
Man this has been a very tough day. Went to sleep at like 3 am woke up at 7 for work in a fog. Around noon time it started to settle within that this is actually real life and Trump won. The long term damage that will be done to civil liberties and equality and the environment is going to be just insane.

Trump being president is one thing, but for them to have control of every aspect of government is absolutely chilling to me. Like I am legit scared and depressed. Forget the wars they will start for a second and how dumb he is. Consider what the supreme court will look like in 10 years. This **** can alter our public policy for the next 30 years. We might have Rudy giuliani and Sarah Palin holding high office in our government. Has that sunk in with you guys? My fiance just tried to be romantic with me and I refused. I don't even know what to do. Halp!!

Had to vent, this is just insane bro's.
11-09-2016 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
The real story, the real underlying story is where the **** Obama's voters went.

I have my guesses but they are admittedly very, very preliminary.

- I've conceded the Clinton scandal/baggage stuff was ultimately costly, maybe very costly depressing Clinton turnout
- black turnout was probably down holistically and definitely in key places. Right now Clinton got 129,000 fewer votes in Wayne County MI. She's down in MI by about 70k votes
- young voter turnout down
- extremely tepid campaign by Clinton, potentially some basic competence issues (0 stops in Wisconsin?!)

But I dunno. Check back later. It's sort of not the point. Because I don't have much good information yet. I'm fairly confident no one else has either. So when people are making strong claims about Bernie, working class whites, Trump winning on economics, etc. that's a pretty clear tell they're coming to it with a preconceived, canned script. And each one sounds trivially out of the white privalegy playbook.
Thanks for responding - this is very thoughtful analysis and a more persuasive explanation. To me, the "Trump revolution" narrative fails even with the limited information available. The simple observation that Trump didn't rally more people to the Republican banner than Romney suggests that there can't have been that much "untapped" white working class resentment for Trump to have tapped into. As you say, the real root cause is Clinton's failure to get more people out to vote for her. In that case, I think the anti-establishment narrative makes some sense. People might have voted for Obama on the hopey/changey train, but they wouldn't be similarly motivated to vote for Clinton.
11-09-2016 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlelou
Trump made 100s of these same type mistakes and somehow survived. I don't know how he played by different rules this entire campaign.
something interesting I came across this morning that touched on this

http://jonathanbales.com/bet-trump-win-75k/
11-09-2016 , 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMOL33
I wouldn't be surprised if years down the road we hear they had something on him in the 11th hour and decided not to release it
seems hard to believe

access hollywood tape had an immediate, large measureable negative affect on trump.

these past 2 weeks have been an overwhelming trickle of wikileaks, anthony weiner, huma, comey etc.

if they could have changed the narrative with another tape, they would have.
11-09-2016 , 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Manifest
Forgive me for a bit of nittery...

This answer is fine, but doing that is essentially the same thing as planting Ruth Bader Ginsburg v 2.0 on the Supreme Court, preserving Obamacare, etc.

Again, I am not arguing that these sacrifices should not have been made. You can make a compelling argument that rejecting Trump's message is more important than the makeup of the court or any individual statute or two.

But it's a big, big ask for a lot of voters. And I suspect that many of the people casually demanding that these Republicans "flip" in a rejection of Trump's rhetoric would find it extremely difficult to do so themselves if the shoe were on the other foot.

Exploring this tension has been at the heart of all of my posts this evening. I think it's a really interesting ethical question.
I see your point and you discuss it in good faith, but I have to say it rests on a premise of false equivalence. Pro-choice is not the opposite of pro-life, just to name one thing.

People are outright attacking american liberalism. Not HRC or the democrats but the very concept of equality and human rights guaranteed by law. There simply is not an equivalent on the 'other side'.

This wasn't a contest where the winners get to enslave the losers and take their stuff. Attacking trump meant embracing a sizable chunk of his supporters, whether they realized it or not.
11-09-2016 , 10:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sighsalot
My fiance just tried to be romantic with me and I refused. I don't even know what to do.

Send her my way, a MAGA man always knows what to do.
11-09-2016 , 10:54 PM
Alright, see you guys in about a year when we're back in the 50's and the militias start looting.

Get some sleep.
11-09-2016 , 10:55 PM
In Clinton's defense, SHE GOT MORE VOTES, they just didn't happen to be in the states that needed them. Damn right the system is rigged.
11-09-2016 , 10:59 PM
The GOP is pretty ****ing good at it too. The DNC is probably going into retirement, hiding, or jail, so they may not be competitive soon.
11-09-2016 , 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd
In Clinton's defense, SHE GOT MORE VOTES, they just didn't happen to be in the states that needed them. Damn right the system is rigged.
But she got 6 million fewer votes than Obama last election. She shouldn't be portrayed as an unlucky success. She failed.
11-09-2016 , 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vixticator
the transitionary period is key. force Trump to respond to the protests before he's actually POTUS. if he calls Obama out for failure to lead, and makes threats, that right there is tyranny. if he keeps calling for reconciliation, then we can, more or less, assume the Republic is safe. not as in: going to implement policy you like. as in: I'm not that kind of worried.
Right see if him and his followers respect this.


Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


If not then...
11-09-2016 , 11:06 PM
So people in America, even on this forum seem indifferent. Like, are the people in OOT discussing this somewhere else? They just don't care?

The republicans have full control of all houses and we are another death away from an outright lifetime SC majority.

And the president is a reality tv star. The first lady is a model, his xth wife.

Like, this is potentially the end of the America we knew. We don't know how bad it will be or if we will ever recover and people seem to be indifferent to it.
11-09-2016 , 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losing all
Send her my way, a MAGA man always knows what to do.
11-09-2016 , 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losing all
Send her my way, a MAGA man always knows what to do.
I've decided to smoke a blunt and jam ai pre on every hand at .25/.50 as stress relief

Also I'm gonna hit that after I'm done
11-09-2016 , 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fouad
something interesting I came across this morning that touched on this

http://jonathanbales.com/bet-trump-win-75k/
That is interesting, thanks.
11-09-2016 , 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Trump's projected to get less votes than Romney. He was just matched by Clinton getting significantly less votes than Obama. What kept them home? Was it really working class whites that stayed home, or buoyed Trump? Why not your typically middle class and wealthy dependable GOPers? Why aren't they the story? What about black voters -- seems like black turnout as down, perhaps in large ways in key places.
I think you're touching on part of the reason why it's so hard for one party to keep power for three consecutive terms. Humans generally get excited to participate in change, not to perpetuate the status quo. Compounded in this case by (1) just how uniquely special the Obama candidacy was to the black community; and (2) just how personally uninspiring Hillary Clinton is, especially in the aftermath of Bernie Sanders campaign, which was very much inspiring.

Trump really did get insanely lucky with the situation he waltzed into. Let's count a few of the breaks he caught:

1. Hillary. She was simply in the spotlight too long. Her candidacy ripened just in time for 2008, got usurped by Obama's once-in-a-generation charisma, then died on the vine.
2. Bernie. If anyone could reignite the young vote the way Barry did, it was someone like Bernie -- a drastic change from Barry but equally exciting. The hangover of his defeat hurt -- especially when it came out that Wasserman rigged it.
3. Weak Republican Cast. Those suckers were like tomato cans lined up to turn Trump into a superstar with the clout to match up with Hillary on the debate stage.
4. Obamacare Premiums.
5. Wikileaks. Assange hates the Clintons.

Quote:
So much of the postmortem is rushed analysis. Understandable. But the story being told so far is basically just maximally flattering to white people.
Interesting, I'm seeing plenty that analysis that hits the opposite POV too. "Today we learned who America really is," "Last night we found out how much our country is still driven by hate," etc.
11-09-2016 , 11:10 PM
Seriously how is this real life. Is anyone legit thinking of moving to Canada or something? This is not a 4 year problem. This is long term serious damage
11-09-2016 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroball
Giving people things is not the way to make them love you.
, he says, the day after trump won by promising free and impossible things to millions of rubes.
11-09-2016 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inso0 View Post
Do I sound upset? I'm not.



Really? No, you aren't hurting me by feeling the need to use a word like grieve in connection with the results of a POTUS election. But I'm just telling you that it turns a lot of people off and they have a tough time taking your side seriously on certain issues. I can understand tears if you were at the campaign event and emotions are high and the atmosphere lends itself to overreaction. But the day after on your couch? Needing to see a grief counselor!?

Estrogen is a helluva drug.
I see that this post was deleted at some point now, before I could respond while I was busy at work.

Anyway, people suffered a loss today. For some it's a huge loss and for others it's not so big. Grieve is the perfect word. And, lol, people get so incredibly emotionally invested in ****ing sports teams and, yeah, they have to process their losses too. It's a normal human thing.

And no, I'm not going to be embarrassed for being genuinely sad and upset. I am. This was a huge loss for me for a thing I was heavily emotionally involved in.

Am I seeing a grief counselor? No. I went to work today. I did my job well, like I always do. I'm trying to move on. But yeah, there's some people who are going to need more because people are different and cope in different ways. But what the hell effect does this have on your life? Like seriously, roll your eyes and move on.

And as far as the money goes - they already staff counselors. They're just advertising their availability right now.

      
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