This...isnt really a dilemma. The answer is quite obvious to just about everyone. But if you really struggle with it, then may I pose you another super hard challenging dilemma sure to win you Mensa points? If the Church forbids sex for its priests and forbids homosexuality THEN HOW COME ALL THOSE PRIESTS RAPED ALL THOSE LITTLE BOYS? Oh man such a dilemma, maybe we need to work harder to truly understand the diverse interpretations possible in such a flexible religious book.

You are overstating it a bit. It has predictive value, it just doesnt help you (very much) to predict the answer to the completely different question that you are asking here. That being said, your question is almost always the really important one, and I would have a hard time imagining a scenario in which it would be SUPER IMPORTANT for me to get domer's question right, so maybe thats all you meant. If so I agree. The fact that the answer to his question is "fistpump Muslim" is NOT a justification for treating any particular Muslim badly.

I for one have gone from a liberal view of all immigration to a more conservative one. Cultural relativism is not working, we need to view effects on our society in a pragmatic way. Until we can get our **** together when it comes to assimilating immigrants that we have already taken in, we should absolutely limit immigration, especially from cultures which do not easily assimilate in the Swedish society.

There is also the logistics problems and the lack of housing, which is a real problem when accepting 160000 refugees in addition to other immigrants for a population of less than 10 million.

Pretty much the same arguments were made against Irish and Italians in the US 100 years ago.



Notice the mixing bowl, and Irish just don't mix. Also they're stabby.




Italians scurrying off the boat and disappearing into the woodwork in the US, making Uncle Sam cry. Also stabby.

Of course it's a numbers game. No one ever said there weren't homicidal maniacs in every religion or ethnic group.

There are entire countries where almost the entire population believes an adulteress should be stoned, or people who leave the faith should be put to death. These countries have armies, and weapons. ISIS itself controls large amounts of physical territory.

The comparison game is really dumb quite frankly.

That may not be true. The Pew Research Center did a survey on opinions regarding support of ISIS from 11 countries where Muslims are a large majority. The results:



The favorable count is among those 11 countries a total of 63 million people. Out of the 811,097,760 people in those 11 countries, that 7.8% of the population. Not a large minority. But if you choose to include those who don't have an opinion, that number jumps to 287 million in just those 11 countries which is more than a third of the population. Both are minority numbers but the group might not be quite as radical relative to mainstream Islam as you think.

ISIS has been terrorizing the ME for years now. How could anybody there not have an opinion on them? It's more likely that the no opinion types support ISIS but feel a bit uncomfortable revealing it to a western research organization.

The reason we are screwed, to somewhat paraphrase Bill Maher, is that when it comes to the problem of radical violent Islam the right wing has a bunch of terrible, counterproductive solutions and the left wing pretends there isn't a problem at all.

Racial profiling, **** that leftwing crap dude... The villains are amongst us and most of them simply have an arabic appearance. That's not racist at all. Screening everyone thorough is never gonna work, it's just common sense to take out those that match the profile...

Exactly, racial profiling is a common sense solution that will surely fix the problem of violent jihadists wanting to kill us.

It worked for the US didn't it?
Do you think it is a coincidence that the attacks take place in Europe and not the US?
Our bleeding heart refugee/immigration policy has Europe paying the price for American foreign policy.

I can totally see why Western leaders would want to downplay the Islamic side of terrorism, i just disagree that it is the best way forward. What I have noticed is that in the current climate of discourse on this subject, the left is eating itself alive with accusations of Islamophobia against anyone who suggests that Islam itself is at the root of the problem. This leaves the door open for actual bigots on the right to talk about "banning all muslims" and be taken seriously because respectable figure on the left seem to be putting their head in the sand. I honestly think Obama and the left downplaying the Islamic side of things helps the Trump and Cruz types tremendously.

The crucial distinction needs to made between Islam and Islamism. Islam is a wide doctrine of beliefs that are held to varying degrees by almost 2 billion people. Islamism (aka political Islam aka theocracy) is the desire to impose any specific interpretation of these doctrines on others. Islamism is the problem, and the Jihadists that actually carry out or support these attacks operate within this sphere.

I agree that it is wrong to blame the entire religion for terrorism, but it is also wrong to deny the correlation, and both paths have negative consequences.

Unfortunately, it appears that the percentage of the 1.7 billion Muslims on Earth that fall into the Islamist category is not insignificant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSPvnFDDQHk

I don't think ISIS can be considered a "fringe death cult" when in the birthplace of Islam, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (aka America's greatest ally in the Middle East) engages in much of the same reprehensible behavior and justifies it with the same Quranic verses. To be sure, ISIS is on some next level ****, but damn...

What are your solutions?
Oh yeah, what could possibly go wrong with giving terrorists a road map to beat security?

Also would like to state that international media isn't always that accurate concerning reports of terrorism in Belgium. For example there is no concensus at all whether or not it was known in the community where Abdeslam was hiding.

There has been breaking news on our national channels all day, and I've been watching it all day. It really is heartbreaking for our nation.
A big part of the problem is imo the softness of alot of Belgian politicians.
Many of them are scared to bluntly point out the problems, because they don't want to be viewed as racist. For your info. Since 1989 there has been a boycot (cordon sanitaire) against the most right-wing party in Belgium (Vlaams Belang).

Stating that our country is completely disfunctional is also complete nonsense.
I really believe the secret service and special forces are doing a good job.
For example think of the succesfull raid in Verviers a year ago.
However, as a defender you are always one step behind the attacker...

I agree with this post.

Islamism is the problem, not Islam.

Saudi Arabia is Islamism, and has been spending hundreds of millions to export this Islamism all over the world.

Different times, different situation. We have an obligation to provide housing and welfare to all immigrants. For 20-65 year old immigrants only 34% have a full time job within 15 years of arriving in Sweden and some of these jobs are subsidised by the state as a way to help immigrants assimilate. This is not a sustainable development. I frankly don't know why we have failed so miserably in this regard.

Source: http://arbetsmarknadsnytt.se/blogg/i...-vi-kant-till/

which got the numbers from http://www.scb.se/en_/

What's surveillance like in Belgium?

Sweden didn't fail, the people Sweden wanted to integrate and didn't, failed. Don't blame yourselves when you were the ones that gave out the helping hand.

What did, stopping Muslim immigration??

Uhh......

but this time is different of course. it always is.

Oh good, we're at about t-plus 12 hours since the terrorist attack, which means we're at the 'bigots just start trotting out their grab bag of Muslim plen-t-plaints to build consensus for [unspoken] policies targeted exclusively at Muslims' part of the show. Hey, stuff blew up, and you're thinking about letting these people in? DO YOU KNOW SOME OF THEM STONE GAYS?!

CHRISV WHERE YOU AT BRO, I'm missing my 2:191-193 citation in the Quaran right now, it's like clockwork but something is missing, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY GOOD VIOLENT QUARAN VERSES RIGHT ABOUT NOW? tia

Right, I mean contrast the difficulty Muslims have immigrating to the US, and the easy of doing so to Europe.
Compare this with the amount of successful attacks in Europe and the lack of them in the US.
If the US let in millions of poorly educated Muslims from the most fanatically Islamic countries, the US would have the same problems with jihadists.

Housing is indeed a two way street. If racist bankers and landlords won't loan or let to folks named Ahmed if they try to get housing in a white neighborhood, it's going to be hard to leave the ghetto.

Singling out Muslim women as the ones who need to learn English is obviously a mistake. It stigmatizes them as the problem. Promoting English lessons to everyone is much more inclusive and pro-integration.

It is not impossible by searching, brainwashing, or blackmail to get someone who is or looks like an elderly white woman and who'll commit a terrorist act. Guaranteeing that she would get through security gives all the more incentive to find one. It is a horribly weak and exploitable security plan that only serves to belittle and harass innocent people who cannot change the fact that they are young men of Middle Eastern heritage.

I don't know, I think it's complex. I am sure racism and xenophobia played a roll too. It is what it is and I think future policies should be formed after the reality of the situation and not some left wing utopia.

so 60% of refugees between 20 and 64 in work after 15 years. Is that bad? They dont need the same employment rate as natives to breakeven because they typically spent their childhood, where you're mostly just a drain on resources, elsewhere. They're almost definitely below breakeven lifetime, but probably not by that much. Nothing that cant be easily handled.

And housing is really just a question of Sweden letting people build it and getting rid of some of the dumb rent control stuff. It's not hard.

Well, since the Paris attacks things changed quite a bit.
Since then soldiers have been patrolling at different kind of public places that are prone to terrorist attacks.
Railwaystations all over the country, tourist sites around Brussels, the Jewish neighbourhood in Antwerp, ... Even at a large shopping mall 10km from my place soldiers have been patrolling. Things like that never happened before in Belgium.
Offcourse there's also a policestation in a every little town, but they aren't equipped to combat terrorism.

The majority of people that live in Belgium who have ties to ISIS are known by the government. About 120 "people" that have fought in Syria have returned to Belgium. They are closely monitored, but you can't just lock them up because of what they very likely did. Often they claim to have to gone there to provide humanitary aid...

To go into specifics. It's true that security at Zaventem Airport (Brussels) needs to be improved. Anyone can walk into the main hall without any form of security whatsoever. I believe this will be addressed by our politicians in the coming few days. The airport will remain closed tomorrow and possibly longer. Trains and metro will run again, but anyone will be searched before they can get it, at least in the Brussels area.