Agreed Camozzi definetly did more damage and Octagon control is a factor...

@theasianplayboy losing octagon control and aggression is irrelevant if you are landing clinch strikes while your opponent fails to get takedowns. By the rules you would be winning octagon control anyway tho.

Maia has no chance against gsp. Fitch got dragged down because he sat there like a deer in the headlights while Maia rushed him and allowed himself to get jammed against the fence. Gsp has far too good of footwork, quickness and game planning to allow that to happen. On the feet it's obv a whitewash. Maia might be able to steal a round or two if he got takedowns but I don't see him subbing gsp ever and with his weakness on the feet and propensity to gas he would just picked apart.

Hendricks has struggled against fellow wrestlers who engaged him on the feet, and gsp is better there than the guys he struggled with. On paper he presents a very interesting challenge for gsp and I think he is indeed one of the toughest matchups for him. However I do think that if you dig a bit deeper you start to see clear edges for gsp. I feel Hendricks only presents a major danger in the first 2 rounds or so. If gsp opens around -200 which I could def see I think I'd back him.

Apologies for wall of texting post

Nick Ring was 27-15 and 29-19 in strikes landed in rounds 1 and 2 respectively while the third was even. Take from that what you will but given that Ring never looked hurt or really in any sort of danger, it's surprising that the media was so unanimous for him.

Wow... That's not just a stretch, it's way wrong. Hendricks is just the type of guy to beat GSP...

GSP can't take Hendricks down at will. He is going to deal with a wrestler just as good (with more experience)... And a sledge hammer on his left arm.

Strike nr don't always tell the whole tale, Ring had more hits, but he didn't committ to the punches whereas Camozzi did more dmg with his strike. End of fight, Ring looked more beat up than Camozzi. Not saying who looks more beat up wins, but I thought it was clear that Camozzi landed the harder strikes and was the aggressor, also neither guy got hurt really.
But often times, the guy that is the aggressor and seems to be landing some shots vs a guy who prances around jabbing in and out, throwing leg jabs that don't do any real dmg, well I have to give it to the forward guy.

GSP still got a takedown in every round even if it wasn't first attempt. When Maia fights smart (eg. remembers he's a grappler and needs to spam takedowns/clinches/trips) then he's a very scary dude at WW, and his takedowns are non-wrestling based trips/throws for the most part which makes them even harder to defend since most WWs will be more used to dealing with NCAA-style wrestling takedowns

I think Maia/Diaz would look fairly similar to GSP/Diaz, only with Maia actively working for the finish instead of just laying in guard not really doing anything

Camozzi is bigger than Ring and judges love to score fights for the bigger guy (there was a study somewhere I read that the taller guy almost always gets the close decision)

Ring very clearly won r1/2 in my book and the numbers back that up. I actually thought Ring winning was more clear cut than Voelker winning under the 10 point scoring system.

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Yes, of course Ring took more damage at the end of the fight and it showed. ALMOST ALL OF IT WAS IN ROUND 3 WHICH CAMOZZI WON. At the end of Round 2, Ring wasn't badly busted up or anything. He clearly won rounds 1 and 2 on the numbers and for anyone who watched the actual fight. If it was a 2 round fight, he wins clearly 20-18, wins on strikes landed and wins on damage done. Hit and run is a perfectly valid strategy and Camozzi walked forward swinging at air for 2 rounds landing nothing. He needed to finish Ring in r3 or get a 10-8 and he didn't. Simple.

ring won that, 29-28 all day

Ebergman has paid me for the MMA prop we did, just confirming that

ring had his hands down the whole fight only anderson silva can do that.

Think it wasn't as clear cut as some people seem to suggest. This isn't point karate, I'll take anyone anyday who presses the action, lands 10 harder punches to someone who prances around and lands 20 uneffective leg jabs/punches.

I agree 100% that you can't simply look at amount of strikes landed and say the greater number won, which is why I don't think there's any doubt Aldo beat Edgar even tho Edgar slightly outlanded him in a few rounds. But this wasn't really such a case IMO, Ring was landing plenty of solid strikes himself and it's not like Camozzi was bringing thunder and wobbling him or anything (I think I remember one point where Ring looked a bit hurt maybe in round 2?). I'm not gonna sit here and say you suck at scoring fights if you gave that to Camozzi, I think there's a good case both ways (and if you didn't get Ring around even money you made a -EV bet), all I was trying to point out with the stats was that it's a bit surprising media and judge scoring was so one-sided given the striking stats.

Maybe I was wrong. Sometimes I follow my "gut feeling" who is winning the fight, other times I rewatch a fight and really try to determine who won the fight on other critera, maybe it's my subconcious because I had a bet on Camozzi.
When I watched it, I interpreted it as neither of the fighters did anything major but it was Camozzi pushing the action and landing the slightly more powerful shots againsts Rings more volume shots. I definitely can see reasons why Ring would have won it, I just think it was a close fight and maybe after rewatching it, I'd give it to ring, just can't see people yelling how it was a clear robbery, which I don't think it was. I simply didn't get that aww Ring really outstruck Camozzi and avoided being hit, like when Machida fights guys, or when Edgar moves around, doesnt get hit but has a lot of volume strikes.
Definitely think Ring is the more talented and better fight, it's just a shame he made a bad gameplan.

I haven't understood why fighters don't focus more on TDD. While to some degree if Condit is going to accept getting put on his back as a style choice, he seemed apprehensive of trying to lock up subs off his back. It looked to me a couple times there were opportunities that he didn't pursue. I'm a big Condit fan, so a bit frustrating to see how this fight went.

Otherwise, seems impossible these days to go to the cards and win a fight if you're repeatedly getting taken down.

They focus alot on TDD's, it's just so hard for a guy that has condits body type. Then you have to take guys like GSP, Hendricks, Velasquez, Sonnen, their speed and technique is so freakishly good you can't do anything about it. Then you're in there fighting the guy and u can't be afraid of getting taken down, then you'll just have the GSP Hardy fight, where Hardy doesn't do anything on the feet, and then he still gets taken down.

Condit was probably drilling TDD so much against GSP but he can't stop it, so the best thing he can do is just be active from his guard, throw up subs etc, but the guy who is in control will always have the advantage, we saw that with GSPs flawless guard against Condit and Diaz.

How many off GSP/Hendrick's takedowns came off Condit kicks? Part of the reason JDS has excellent TDD is that he's pretty much a pure boxer on the feet.

Reason why JDS has good TDD is because.

1. He's fast and have good reflexes which make him very good at reacting to takedowns.
2. HW isn't a wrestling based division, meaning you can have mediocre TDD and do okey.
3. JDS has a good body type, medium tall and musculuar so he has good strength to push off ppl attempting to shot in.

I think one of the worst body types is that of Hardy and Condit when it comes to TDD. They're wrecking machines in the standup with their relatively long limbs, but they are not physically as strong or have that "fast twitch" shoot down for a double leg ability.

Guys like Hendricks have been wrestling their whole lives in many cases, since they are as young as 3 sometimes. Hard for a guy like Condit who doesn't have a physically strong build as it is to stop someone like that from taking them down.

also... JDS keeps his hands rather low... which makes it easier to defend the TD ... + body jabs (to setup the head punches) and uppercuts help also ... but keeping the hands low fired back against Cain since he got hit a lot by Cain because he was worried about the TD ...

I don't train MMA so take this fwiw, for a guy like Condit it doesn't seem like he could just "add" TDD to his game. If he wants to stop good wrestlers it seems like he would have to modify his entire style of fighting, at least for that fight. Not just drill TDD in practice all day then go out and start throwing flying knees all over the place. Idk, the pros can't figure out GSP so wtf do I know.

As I was discussing the other day with my friend...if you can't wrestle in MMA you're usually going to need 2 things to make it to a championship level the way Condit has: KO power and a sweep-based guard game. Very few fighters have these two things, which is why it's so rare to see fighters with Condit's skillset make it as far as he has. Even if you have those two things, a guy with Hendricks' abilities (solid chin and good awareness/positioning on the ground) is going to be able to exploit you through repeated takedowns to rack up points. See Kim vs Diaz.

Fair enough on all points, certainly didn't think this would/was an easy thing, but it didn't look like much defense attempted really at all. Okay, chalk it up.. but I was still a little surprised at lack of sub attempts. Maybe in the end the style mix just plain doesn't work.. if Condit fought Hendricks 10 times, what could he change to help him get an edge? Or is this just a losing style proposition.

I think it's a losing style proposition.

If we are doing the 10 fights, most times they fight Henricks doesn't break his hand in the first and does far more damage in rounds 2 and 3.

I feel Hendricks is the man to beat GSP, will be betting him at +150, and also going with him ITD.

hendricks by tko all in george got rocked by diaz little punches wait till he gets hit with a bomb