NL100 200BB Deep BvB with AceHole - Small Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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NL100 200BB Deep BvB with AceHole

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08-01-2008 , 03:06 PM

stupandaus

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,363

Acehole is 24/20/2.7 and can be very very spazzy.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SoCalQuest (UTG): $204.00
nurAx_The_One (CO): $246.20
pxI0IvI0Ixq (BTN): $200.00
Hero (SB): $253.45
__Acehole888__ (BB): $280.50

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with 9

3 folds, Hero raises to $4, __Acehole888__ raises to $13, Hero calls $9

Flop: ($26.00) 5

(2 players)
Hero bets $19, __Acehole888__ raises to $65, Hero says what the ****.

08-01-2008 , 03:59 PM

TPTK77

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,438

i prob fold this one. acehole is very agro, but i would have to have history with him to ship it in here. this spot is really gross, and i don't see him bluffraising here that much. i can see him having AJcc, or a TT+ hand here a ton. i say you have to pitch it.

i like c/call though. it gets you to slow down villain and not play too big of a pot OOP. i think you can call 2streets, and fold to a river bet bc i don't see him barreling 3 times w/o a big pair or better if you play it like this.

08-01-2008 , 04:03 PM

silly_monkey

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 596

I would insta much this even against him. Why are you leading the flop?

08-01-2008 , 04:11 PM

aseHigh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 11,883

Quote:

Originally Posted by silly_monkey

I would insta much this even against him. Why are you leading the flop?

this and

Quote:

i like c/call though. it gets you to slow down villain and not play too big of a pot OOP. i think you can call 2streets, and fold to a river bet bc i don't see him barreling 3 times w/o a big pair or better if you play it like this.

I don't get the lead on flop either, you're turning your hand face up pretty much and are open to exactly what he did.. putting you in a really awkward spot OOP AND 200BB deep

08-01-2008 , 04:16 PM

insyder19

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 6,167

lol

You lead the flop to make him fold all his air and raise nut draws/big overpairs?

08-01-2008 , 04:18 PM

Jordan MacPhee

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 413

I fold pre-flop unless I have history with villain or he three-bet/protects constantly. There's no reason to think you're good after two raises. I check/call one time.

08-01-2008 , 04:21 PM

Jordan MacPhee

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 413

Quote:

Originally Posted by insyder19

lol

You lead the flop to make him fold all his air and raise nut draws/big overpairs?

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you laughing at why people don't understand why he raised or at the fact that he raised made no sense?

08-01-2008 , 05:10 PM

stupandaus

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,363

For those advocating muck, what is his range to raise here?

08-01-2008 , 05:15 PM

Keyser.

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Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 11,710

Shoving vs acehole can't be too bad

edit: didn't notice how deep you are, and the flop lead is so weird I don't know what to make of it. Pre is fine this deep. C/c flop and see what happens.

08-01-2008 , 11:04 PM

#10

stupandaus

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,363

I think people are giving Acehole way too much credit. His range is super super wide even here.

08-01-2008 , 11:07 PM

#11

onz3145

adept

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,012

why are you leading the flop?

08-01-2008 , 11:12 PM

#12

Check_The_Nuts

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,930

i'm advocating check flop. I don't know acehole well enough to bet/call flop and then play the turn and river against. If you've played more against him then maybe you know more. Straight up betting this flop is just asking to let him take the pot from you.

I played one deep hand against him today and he seemed very reasonable deep but over-valued his implied odds a bit...or lot.

and for all the flack he get's I read spazzy as hyper aggressive which just doesn't help things in this spot.

08-01-2008 , 11:18 PM

#13

silly_monkey

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 596

I have no idea what his range here, and agree it's wide and we could have the best hand. But what's our plan for the hand now. Donking the flop put us in a terrible spot imo, where he's threatening our stack and we're playing guessing games with his range.

08-01-2008 , 11:20 PM

#14

Check_The_Nuts

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,930

if i had to guess his range it's something like any open ender, any flush draw, sometimes just two overcards, any pair+straight draw, any overpair he flatted with preflop, sets, two pairs, and random crap he decided to call preflop and blindly raise the flop, and other things like top pair good kicker or top pair top kicker.

08-01-2008 , 11:27 PM

#15

stupandaus

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,363

The reason why I donk/called, is I think he is very unlikely to bluff the turn or river at this point. He is willing to check down in this situation. If I check call, you can expect a barrel on turn and river because he is just that aggressive. I'd rather commit a little more money on a flop where I'm pretty sure I'm ahead, than be playing guessing games on scary turns and rivers.

08-03-2008 , 06:03 PM

#16

SoCalQuest

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,059

Hi Stup,

Played a little bit with both of you guys.

Preflop looks good. Check/call the flop 2/3 the time, check/raise 1/3. Re-evaluate on turn when you flat the flop.

Also, if I led this flop against this player, it would never be with the intentions of folding.

08-03-2008 , 09:16 PM

#17

Check_The_Nuts

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,930

wow i didn't realize this was a 3bet pot. Pretty sure flop should be checked for sure.

08-03-2008 , 09:41 PM

#18

stupandaus

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,363

Results since this is an old thread:

Acehole had A6dd, and checked turn and river becomes of running clubs. Obv he hit his straight though

08-03-2008 , 09:43 PM

#19

Mike MacIntosh

veteran

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,155

How do u think he views u? This is a prob the most important dynamic imo. What kind of history do u guys have etc?

What was ur plan after donking/calling the flop? If hes aggro as u say he is what makes u certain he will freeze with most of his range on the turn/river after u donk/call?

08-03-2008 , 10:03 PM

#20

loosbastard

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,072

Quote:

Donking the flop put us in a terrible spot imo, where he's threatening our stack and we're playing guessing games with his range.

+4687583431

i don't really mind the donk w/ 100 bbs and against this opponent but w/ these stacks you're just asking to get owned.

08-03-2008 , 11:39 PM

#21

blah-blah-blah

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 6,718

ez fold to the flop raise. i don't hate the lead for a couple reasons. 1. his range for raising the flop is not as wide as people might think. sure he can do it with air but he should be expecting a b3b pretty often. he's also doing it with good draws, two pair, sets, AA, and maybe some JJ+ combos which has 99 crushed so its an ez muck. 2. c/c one street then guess on the turn is a horrendous plan vs acehole since we're never ever ever gonna c/c a strong made hand on the flop and he's gonna double/triple barrel whether he has us beat or not enough to make life hell for our 99.

08-03-2008 , 11:46 PM

#22

loosbastard

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,072

Quote:

1. his range for raising the flop is not as wide as people might think

given it's BvB and everybody's saying he's hyperaggro/spewy or w/e...this just doesn't make sense at all to me. w/ these stacks he can practically raise the flop w/ any 2 since our range for felting is like sets/huge draws and maaaaybe a random slow played AA only. c/c obv sucks too, but leading is just asking to play for a 200+ bb pot which really sucks w/ 99 on this board.

the other problem is he's pretty much never ever flatting our lead w/ worse, so it would almost be better w/ something like AQ since we have better equity against stuff like 99-JJ.

08-03-2008 , 11:46 PM

#23

blah-blah-blah

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 6,718

ok just read results and I still don't like calling the raise because i think he's barreling most non club turn cards since ur 3betting the flop w/ ur big hands pretty much always. ur counting on the turn being a club, him not having clubs, him checking it down, and him not outdrawing you.

08-03-2008 , 11:59 PM

#24

blah-blah-blah

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 6,718

Quote:

Originally Posted by loosbastard

yea our donk/3bet range is narrow but how much wider is our leading range to begin with, especially in a 3bet pot? and I would have folded to the flop raise so I wouldn't be playing a 200+bb pot. also I agree the lead is better w/ AQ or something but that doesn't automatically make it bad w/ 99.

08-04-2008 , 12:02 AM

#25

loosbastard

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,072

Quote:

Originally Posted by blah-blah-blah

yea our donk/3bet range is narrow but how much wider is our leading range to begin with, especially in a 3bet pot? and I would have folded to the flop raise so I wouldn't be playing a 200+bb pot.

i mean i agree w/ folding after he raises, but the idea of donk/folding in the first place just doesn't seem great to me. w/ these stacks and position he can (and should) be ****ing w/ us all day. i mean 99 is close to the top of our flatting/leading range and we still want to fold.

i also agree that he *should* give our lead a lot of respect on a board like this, but the fact is most regs (especially the "over-aggro" kind) won't and will just spazz raise w/ any 2 since "zomg it's blinds vs blind and i 3-bet. this is my pot".

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