PLO50 tough riverdecision! - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

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PLO50 tough riverdecision!

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08-07-2016 , 06:57 AM

MartinK1979

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,579

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37409860

Hero (MP): $55.66 (111.3 bb)
CO: $49.25 (98.5 bb)
BTN: $79.53 (159.1 bb)
SB: $102.32 (204.6 bb)
BB: $58.70 (117.4 bb)
UTG: $31.71 (63.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A

UTG folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 3 folds, BB raises to $4.75, Hero calls $3.25

Flop: ($9.75) 6

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $6, BB calls $6

Turn: ($21.75) 7

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($21.75) A

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB raises to $44.66

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

Villian is 32/23/3,5 over 225 hands
Could he c/c the turn and c/r the river with the 9Txx here?
Clear fold or crying call...?
I mean he can put me on AAxx right? because I just call preflop...
At PLO50 nobody is c/r the river without the nuts right?

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08-07-2016 , 07:14 AM

tofurocks

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 870

Y u no 4bet pre?

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08-07-2016 , 07:59 AM

Loctus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,280

He's literally never putting you on AAxx but I'm not sure if that matters

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08-07-2016 , 09:34 AM

Z06Fanatic1

adept

Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 835

really depends how good the villan is.....not sure if ppl are capable of c/r bluffing like this at these stakes.....if they are then call, if not then fold

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08-07-2016 , 10:27 AM

MartinK1979

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,579

Quote:

Originally Posted by tofurocks

Y u no 4bet pre?

AA5J without any suit is not that strong imo, so I prefere better to call in position with this kind of hands and betting if is check to me or calling with the intention to float on a safe turn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z06Fanatic1

really depends how good the villan is.....not sure if ppl are capable of c/r bluffing like this at these stakes.....if they are then call, if not then fold

I guess nobody at this level is bluffing this way.
But sometimes if you bet small on the river, some thinking villians try to push you out of the hand because you bet so small and thats looks weak...and check raise on the river looks everytime strong, right.
But what makes the hand a bit suspect he checked the turn and checked the river with the nuts...??

Last edited by MartinK1979; 08-07-2016 at 10:38 AM.

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08-07-2016 , 10:36 AM

Grethe

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,311

True, it's only a top 2% hand... Kind of garbage

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08-07-2016 , 10:43 AM

MartinK1979

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,579

I didn't say is garbage but not that strong to always 4 betting with and get it in....

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08-07-2016 , 10:59 AM

Loctus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,280

With deep stacks I think just calling the 4b is fine for balance/deception/playability/etccc but like 110bb deep I think it's a huge leak not to 4b and then pretty much just pot/gii any flop ip tbh

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08-07-2016 , 11:05 AM

gay_on_tse

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 612

not another thread about GII AA preflop please

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08-07-2016 , 11:11 AM

#10

Darkfangs

grinder

Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 540

pretty much the only time I am never 4-betting this is if I have a note on the guy where they literally only 3-bet AA. I like to flat againt those types and steal it postflop rather than probably chop. With that said, put the money in, the worst equity you will likely have is 50% but a majority of the time you will have 60% and you will get a ton of folds on the flop when you shove almost every flop.

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08-07-2016 , 11:23 AM

#11

Mindead

adept

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,030

4bet preflop.

Flop: He can't put you AA, and your range is very 0 straights when you check behind the turn, those are the things that make the hand a bit tough on the river facing the raise.

Anyway, without reads I would just fold, he did check/call you the turn and 3 straights hited there, and I don't see people frequently bluffing like this on this stake.

He could have some missed FDs trying to exploit your range, but I don't know if enough to justify a call, I have almost never seen somebody bluffing with a check raise on the river on plo50, seriously.

P.D: I am not 100% sure about the river situation anyway. Hope to read more posts.

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08-07-2016 , 11:50 AM

#12

MartinK1979

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,579

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loctus

With deep stacks I think just calling the 4b is fine for balance/deception/playability/etccc but like 110bb deep I think it's a huge leak not to 4b and then pretty much just pot/gii any flop ip tbh

I am going to 4 bet this hand sometimes too but sometimes I just like to call in position also. I don't see any leaks in this imo and like you say to balance my range.
I have figured out that sometimes, if you just call preflop with AAxx and hit you set on flop your opponents never put you on this and stack off a little bit lighter than in a 4 bet pot.

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08-07-2016 , 12:11 PM

#13

gay_on_tse

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 612

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinK1979

I am going to 4 bet this hand sometimes too but sometimes I just like to call in position also. I don't see any leaks in this imo and like you say to balance my range.
I have figured out that sometimes, if you just call preflop with AAxx and hit you set on flop your opponents never put you on this and stack off a little bit lighter than in a 4 bet pot.

Haven't we already established that balance is absolutely unnecessary at SSPLO?

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08-07-2016 , 12:18 PM

#14

Bullten

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 169

easy 4bet pre.
As played, I fold river pretty fast.

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08-07-2016 , 12:32 PM

#15

wabomushroom

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 387

4 bet preflop and GII on almost any flop ---> always +EV

Call a 3bet OOP with bad aces ---> tough postflop decisions against any semi thinking opponent

In short, having bad aces is an ever easier 4bet as you eliminate tough postflop decisions. That is if you start around 100bb deep.

And please, don't balance your range at this limits. Play as exploitative as possible.

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08-07-2016 , 01:25 PM

#16

xaxa

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,501

He puts you on not haveing 9T

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08-07-2016 , 04:11 PM

#17

MartinK1979

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,579

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindead

4bet preflop.

I have listened to you guys and here we go:

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37409915

BTN: $10.69 (21.4 bb)
SB: $22.60 (45.2 bb)
BB: $49.50 (99 bb)
UTG: $45.57 (91.1 bb)
Hero (MP): $69.38 (138.8 bb)
CO: $87.81 (175.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 2

UTG folds, Hero raises to $1.50, CO folds, BTN raises to $5.25, SB folds, BB calls $4.75, Hero raises to $21.25, BTN calls $5.44, BB calls $16

Flop: ($53.44) 8

(3 players)
BB bets $28.25 and is all-in, Hero folds

Turn: ($53.44) Q

(2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($53.44) 7

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Spoiler:

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

Villian is unknow but my consideration is: his pushing range in this spot must be strong or I am totally wrong and have to stack off here every time? I have the topset blocker as well...

Last edited by MartinK1979; 08-07-2016 at 04:20 PM.

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08-07-2016 , 04:28 PM

#18

Adebisi

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,966

2nd hand is a ridiculously bad fold.

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08-07-2016 , 04:43 PM

#19

MartinK1979

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,579

Even if you smell somethings?
No instincs in poker anymore everybody is playing GTO?

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08-07-2016 , 04:50 PM

#20

Loctus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,280

Atrocious. Sorry but wtf

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08-07-2016 , 04:57 PM

#21

MartinK1979

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,579

If I belive I am beat than I am going to fold, whats wrong with this mindset guys?

Here is some simular hand, where I was almost folding but decided not to, against my instincts
Villian is 31/21/3,5 over 80 hands

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50, $0.10 ante Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 4 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37409920

CO: $94.38 (188.8 bb)
Hero (BTN): $87.39 (174.8 bb)
SB: $55.99 (112 bb)
BB: $178.33 (356.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with J

CO raises to $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, SB folds, BB raises to $6.65, CO calls $5.15, Hero raises to $27.25, BB calls $20.60, CO calls $20.60

Flop: ($82.40) 6

(3 players)
BB checks, CO bets $67.03 and is all-in, Hero calls $60.04 and is all-in, BB folds

Turn: ($202.48) 2

(2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($202.48) 5

(2 players, 2 are all-in)

Spoiler:

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

Looks fine right?

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08-07-2016 , 05:14 PM

#22

sngrush

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 628

lol @ folding or wanting to fold in these last 2 hands...

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08-07-2016 , 05:19 PM

#23

Loctus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,280

Maybe Martin is just wayy ahead of the curve strategy wise here. In 2018 we'll look back and be jealous

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08-07-2016 , 05:24 PM

#24

horseofhell

grinder

Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 554

Back when I first started playing poker and I was playing 2NLHE I was tempted to fold KK to a 4b from an unknown because my 'instincts' told me they always had AA when they did that. Obviously that is horribly bad and a pretty extreme example.

But what I'm trying to say is that your instincts might not know how to play plo.

Also it's really easy to say "Damn I knew I should have folded that, look I lost the hand!". Even when you pick the most +EV plays you can still lose that hand.

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08-07-2016 , 06:24 PM

#25

MartinK1979

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,579

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loctus

Maybe Martin is just wayy ahead of the curve strategy wise here. In 2018 we'll look back and be jealous

I just have just figured out that a lot of (bad) players at this level is going to set mine even in 4 bet pots and take a creative push in to the raiser line...

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