Okay so this is a pretty common spot I find myself in, so I'd like to get some opinions on what is standard for other people in these spots. for 100bbs i think its a definite pot/call off, but what about for ~150bbs?

raiser is 29/17 over 215 hands and flatter is 52/23 over 251 hands. i don't think i was being super active this session, but they probably think im 3betting fairly wide.

Poker Stars $5000.00 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $24360.00
CO: $8994.40
Hero (BTN): $7470.00
SB: $2505.00
BB: $7324.40

Pre Flop: ($75.00) Hero is BTN with Q K 9 K
UTG raises to $175, CO calls $175, Hero raises to $775, 2 folds, UTG calls $600, CO calls $600

Flop: ($2400.00) 2 8 J (3 players)
UTG checks, CO checks

bet/call looks good. Not like you can check back this flop, and once you bet you a reasonable amount you only need ~30% to get it in hu.

Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: 2d8hjs
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
qs9skckd 37.43% 221,450 6,317
9t7*, 9tq*, 8j**, jj**, 9tj8, 88** 62.57% 372,233 6,317

+1


What's our betsize on the flop? I guess our bet/fold range is pretty slim here? Which hands are good candidates to bet/fold here ?

What's our plan with naked AAxx here (e.g. AA45ds), looks like we'll have 30% here, so breakeven call i guess.

i think AAxx is a check back. i don't think that sim is all that meaningful given we are betting into 2 people. plus AA45 has no blockers to hands that will c/r like we do with KKq9

This

I'd bet/call

To be honest I don't think we should have a bet fold range here. Well, by bet fold range I mean a hand that we are planning to bet/fold to one raise. I guess we can have some hands we bet planning to get in vs one person but fold if it goes raise then shove. The only hands I can think of bet/folding are ones that would never be in my 3 betting range preflop (i.e. 999*,ttt*). I feel like any other hand that is a reasonable bet to begin with is going to have enough equity to call off vs one person, but that doesn't mean it's a good bet to begin with.

Do you think this is exploitable? I feel like there a lot of spots in multiway PLO pots where it is okay to not have a bet/folding range. I think these are mostly on more drawy boards, but this is a fairly drawy dry board so idk.

What about two cbet size ranges: pot and 1/3 ? For several reasons very interesting idea imo here.

I think bet/call is the best in a bunch of bad options. I'd be betting on the bigger side between 1/2 and full pot.

i would check back. Comitted $750 in the pot and has almost 6800 behind. Check flop and reevaluate turn.
But if your gonna bet/call, I would bet up to pot.

yup.

bdfd too!

i hate to b/c but you're proly supposed to, i for sure check back sometimes. if you are betting, it's defo not to fold.

maybe i'm being a nit, but can everyone agree that betting like 1800$ or w/e then snapping off 5k more looks ugly?

is this just one of those spots where everything feels wrong, but ya just do w/e is most mathmatically sound, which is b/c??

check back J84, but bet/call J82.

A question I always have in these sorts of spots- why would we bet anything other than full pot? I'm having trouble thinking of a reason to give people better odds to peel. I agree with djk that we shouldn't have a bet-folding range here, and I don't think there's anything wrong with making that transparent. Are we trying to set up a shove for exactly pot on turns we like? Are we looking to get away for cheaper if we get action from both?

Is there any specific reason for this? Why not POT or 1/2POT ? Especially since it looks like people don't bet/fold here. With 1/2pot we are not comitted and UTG will play his hand pretty much face up given he's squeezed with CO left to act imo. Are we "faking" some fold equity with a smaller bet (it might even look stronger) ?

People have their own tendencies on bet sizing so whatever you bet should be congruent with your overall game plan. I don't like a small bet in this spot nor do I like being locked into only two options of 1/2 pot or full pot on every board texture. I want to have a balanced range in this spot (with my bet sizing) while also trying to achieve folds with my particular hand. So I think something on the bigger side works well here.

I always just fire away in spots like this and have never really doubted the approach.

I notice that ashman here and cts in a somewhat similar spot favored checking behind. Maybe I lack a little finesse in these spots having originally been a limit player.

I feel like you will take it down a lot here, more often than people often think, and you will also get called some by worse hands with obvious scare cards and position, and you will also get it in a lot in the 55-45 range, and yeah you will get it in rather badly a few times.

Maybe if you check behind here it plays out better than I realize and you wind up extracting value or inducing a bluff on the turn/river fairly often.


ETA: Also keep in mind your having the nut gutshot and KQ9 blockers cuts a lot into the value of the various pair + draw hands that will ship here.

EDIT: bet/call seems the best option. checking back gives u a lot of fkd up turnspots.

This. Checking back gives us a ton of **** turn spots.

b/c 16-22

I'd definitely bet/call in this hand (same reasoning as yours).

i'm being a bit slow here but could you please explain how KK acts as blockers on a J82 board?

You cut heavily into the two-pair and trips equity of a lot of the hands that will be shipping here.

i was talking about our other two cards, the Q and the 9

sorry i still don't see how KK here helps as blockers but not AA, could you please explain