When you say health food, what exactly does that mean? If this thread shows anything - almost everyone, especially fat people - do not have any clue what eating healthy actually is. There might not have been Twinkies in the house, but that doesn't mean you didn't eat huge pasta dinners, eat badly at school, etc. You don't get fat by magic, you get fat by eating too many calories, especially as a kid.

Telling YTF he's at a disadvantage because of genetics, or some other fat voodoo, doesn't help. He's at a disadvantage because of his own poor choices and lack of knowledge about what actually makes you fat (re: his bagels and peanutbutter weight loss breakfast is actually worse for you than his normal eggs and bacon)

All the suggestions about going to the gym, lifting, walking, calorie logging, etc are all positive. But we don't need to overthink anything. If he literally just eats 1600 calories a day weight will MELT off at the rate of 20-30+ pounds a month for several months straight. Exercise will only help this, but it is far, far, more important that he actually sticks to a diet then limps around doing some cardio which is going to be restrictive because of his awful knees.

He doesn't need to try spinach, quinoa, lentils, etc to lose weight. He just needs to eat less. If you wanna try new stuff, cool. Or just eat lean meats and whatever 2-3 vegetables you can stomach.

quinoa will be like the bataan death march of eating for ytf.


am i doing it right?

ya this. ppl are making this way too hard. dont worry about "healthy" food bc there really isnt such a thing in this case and in most cases. dont worry lifting weights or swimming or any of that crap. just find your calorie target, and hit it. dont matter what you eat to hit it but you will find certain foods make it easier by making you feel fuller. lean meats for sure.

I don't think it would be overstating things to say that green tea will be the Zyklon B of the dietary extermination camp he has been imprisoned in

Non-Fattys,

I am about 6 feet tall and weigh 215 pounds. I am in my late twenties with likely above-average natural metabolism.

Most nights I'll have 2 large (solo cup sized) mixed drinks, usually vodka/juice or vodka/V8. My diet is not great but not awful, I fall off the wagon with pizza or a cheeseburger about 3 times a week on average, but I don't over-eat and stop before I'm full.

Which is worse, the drinking or the eating, and can I lose weight without quitting both?

Oh yeah, I exercise for like 30-45 mins of walking about 4 times a week.

the one that is "worse" for losing weight is the one that has moar calories. like, are you even paying any attention to this thread?

Pick the one you feel is right.

(It'll be the opposite of that.)

Victor,

I don't know which one has more calories.

You are a dick.

ytf,

mullen and Victor are of course right and what they are saying has been said by many of us since early in the thread - the by far far far hugest factor here is simply consuming fewer calories.

You've mentioned a few things you do and don't like, but for starters how about listing as many things as you can think of that you enjoy eating, especially things that you enjoy eating all the time. Incorporating as much stuff as possible that you enjoy eating into your weight loss diet will perhaps increase your chances of actually sticking with it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=calo...ient=firefox-a

lemme kno if u need moar help from here

I hadn't read the bagels thing yet. I agree if that's his "diet" than there's a ton of wiggle room. Nor was I trying to say that this is 100% not his fault and there's nothing he can do about it. I just believe in being honest.

If you tell someone who has a hard time losing weight that it's going to be just as easy as some high-metabolism person who sheds weight easily - you're doing them a disservice imo. They need to be prepared for a fight.

I just know from experience that BMR is a lot more variable than most of you seem to think. I know my metabolism got ****ed up by eating too much through HS and college, then starving myself for a semester. There is no way that it's the same difficulty for me to gain or lose weight after than that happened than before. So yeah - it's my fault - but I know my BMR changed significantly, and I've been working to change it back ever since. It's taken a lot of exercise, weightlifting, switching to the right kinds of foods, and with the help of testosterone I definitely don't gain fat quite as easily now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_metabolic_rate

And this is just 150 adults. YTF could be a huge outlier.

Again, he absolutely should be able to lose the weight. I just don't agree with this borderline religious adherence to the laws of thermodynamics while completely ignoring potential variability in BMR. I think some of you have an emotional need to think that fatties are all 100% at fault for their condition.

telling ytf about the testosterone thing was really bad

no need to be cruel about it

River,

"Which is worse, the drinking or the eating"

As Victor said, wrt weight, whichever one has more calories. Try this.

"can I lose weight without quitting both?"

Are you gaining weight right now? If you are, then the answer is maybe. If you aren't, then the answer is yes.

Check with your doctor. If your free testosterone (or the other one I forget) is below 250 I think testosterone treatments are covered by insurance. But if you go to an endocrinologist (or nutritionist affiliated with one like I did) and pay out of your own pocket, you can get it as long as your somewhat low. Mine was 350 out of 300-700 = normal for 40 year old male. Also I think the dosage I got through the nutritionist was a lot more than what a maintenance dose intended for the rest of your life would be (the low T commercials).

The nice thing about the nutritionist is they should also run all your blood work and do a big health questionaire to tell you if your glucose it out of whack or whatever - and set you up with a good diet of course. But obviously it's not super cheap. I wonder if insurance companies offer some service like this since it would save them money in the long run. Might be worth looking into.

i cant help but think this is a horrible study. 150 ppl? were they all the same weight? same activity level? i mean obv not.

as for your situation, presumably you have stringently counted calories at times? how much did your bmr seem to deviate than what internet bmr calculators estimate?

I was following the diet my nutritionist gave me to the letter, including the 2-week almost no carb cleanse thing at the start, and not losing. He suggested the testosterone as a boost since he knew I was on the low end anyway.

I also took the opportunity to get a trainer to teach me how to do squats and deadlifts right and beefed up my muscle a lot while I was on it. That helped a ton with the weight loss obviously. Although when you go off it's pretty frustrating watching your max bench go down or stay level every week. And your sex drive goes to **** for a while.

So yeah, it's serious stuff and there are definite side effects. I almost road-raged a couple times. But for me I think it was worth it.

Have the fatties itt come to terms that they really do just need to eat less and move around more?

Feel free to present another study. Like I said a lot of you seem to have a religious adherence to this thermodynamics thing that strongly goes against what people with metabolism problems have experienced first hand. Do you really think we're all crazy? Maybe yeota lost/gained some water weight in there. But do you think he's lying when he posted his 500 cal diet for the day? Seemed to me he was pretty rigorous to have written everything down and saved it like that. It doesn't violate the laws of thermodynamics to say that BMR varies from person to person.

YTF: Are you still planning on starting next week? Don't let anyone discourage you. You have a lot of support here!

suz,

I mean, its clear from ytfs posting that he's desperately looking for any non-calorie explanation for his weight, its not beneficial to (excuse the pun) feed that.

suzzer,

Yes, differences in metabolism, body composition, fidgetiness, hormone levels, etc etc etc all lead to different BMRs for different people. But that's so far from the crux of the issue here, and the last thing YTF needs is more potential excuses/rationalizations. Changing his mindset and diet in ways that are healthy lifestyle changes as opposed to crash diets he'll yoyo back from are the key elements here, not testosterone. If he actually follows these guidelines and stays true to them and shows wildly differing results than expected, that's when it's time to start looking into things like that.

suzzer,

Yes, yeota was completely delusional about either portion sizes, forgetting to log things he consumed, or some other aspect of his tracking.

i mean, i just dont think there is 1500cal difference in bmr for similarly active and structured ppl. mebbe im wrong, but lol at that study being proof of anything.

anyway, im pretty sure i remember reading a study on lyle's site saying that metablolic differences are pretty minimal with the exception of rare disorders.

Talk to a boby builder about losing weight. You hit plateaus. Sometimes you can eat too little and your body goes into shutdown mode. Sometimes you need to carb-load. Etc. Yeota had already dieted so hard it's very possible he hit one of those plateaus.

My point is there are a ton more variables than just portion sizes. I've religiously followed a very strict diet for a couple months and lost almost nothing. Then get on testosterone and the weight starts falling off. That would certainly mean that there are other variables at play.

But a lot of you are basically saying that's all a big myth. Personally I blame Billy Beane. Everyone thinks there a goddam internet expert now who knows more than people who have actually experienced stuff or lived through it. Not everything in life works like OPS+.


Here's another study:

http://www.ajcn.org/content/82/5/941.long


But again, YTF - stop eating bagels and the like, and get some exercise. You will lose weight.