i don't know BASIC for the record

MADD, baby!

i'm on the internet. where are you?

A friend of mine was let go AT .08 once. That's all I know. The issue is that the gray area is the "below .08 but still impaired" crowd probably more than the "above .08 and borderline" crowd. I would also assume that lots of the people above .08 that are OK tend to get pulled over less, barring "DUI checkpoints" and the like. A cop has to have a reason to pull you over, which is why I drive like a grandma when I'm out at bar close.

Well, it could just be a boat, depending on how bad her vision really is...

I will say this of drunk driving. I've driven way too drunk one time. I was 17. I was going over to a friend's house and I was plowed. I got out of my neighborhood and realized things were moving a little too much. I pulled over for a few minutes, then very carefully drove home, realizing how drunk I was. After that day, I never drove after more than 2 drinks. Just my story/two cents.

MuresanForMVP, you are given a chance to prove your coordination when you're suspected of drunk driving. If you pass the coordination tests flawlessly, you will most likely not be tested via breathalyzer. I've been in a situation where my friend who had not been drinking was pulled over while driving my car on the way home from AC. The car smelled strongly of alcohol, but he got out and performed coordination tests flawlessly and wasn't even tested via breathalyzer.

If you have been drinking though, and you suspect that you're under the legal limit, you have a right not to tell the officer that you've been drinking AND refuse coordination tests. You just can't refuse the breathalyzer.

Is this type of personal attack really necessary? My point was that your point about 0.8 (sic, but who cares, I got your point) definitively "affecting ability to drive" is wrong, it's been proven wrong, and we've been through this already. But I mean whatever, obviously attacking me as a person nullifies all of this.

"LOL"

The problem with this is that if the officer wants you to fail this test then he will find a way. and like you said, you can't refuse a breathalyzer. Actually you can, but then your license is automatically suspended, but w/e. I think my idea is far better than the current system. Cops can almost literally pull you over for any reason, and often do if they know the bars just got out and you look of college-age or whatever. It appears that you're putting FFAARRRR too much confidence in the police to use discretion in these situations.

"LOL" all you want, its cute. However, its true. Even if its something as weak as failing to signal or not coming to a complete stop at a red light when you're going to make a right turn. Save the cutesy "zomg cops have too much power" for another thread, please.

I'm not saying it has to be a STRONG reason, but unless they're at a DUI checkpoint where they basically do everybody, they HAVE to have a reason logged for pulling you over. Simple as that. Keep it on the straight and narrow and don't give them one.

And I don't wanna just prove my coordination. I want to prove i'm very capable of operating a vehicle according to the normal MVA standards for receiving a driver's license, with a certain BAC. Therefore I should legally be able to operate an automobile at that level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries

[X] America
[ ] The Internet

"Officer, why did you pull the defendant over?"


"Your honor, it was approximately 1:40am, the bars had just gotten out, they appeared to be of college age, and were driving from the direction of said drinking establishments. Given my years on the force, my experience in situations like this, and the totality of the circumstances, I decided to stop them on the suspicion of drunk driving. When I approached the car, the defendant seemed nervous, and the car smelled of alcohol. I instructed the driver to step out of the car, and I administered a field sobriety test. The defendant did not complete the test to the specific guidelines set forth, and upon receiving a breathalyzer reading of .09 I arrested him for driving under the influence."

Judge: Pwned, guilty.


You'd be surprised, man. You can make a reason out of essentially nothing these days.

Not "almost" literally.

The most frustrating case of this that I know involved a friend who already had a DUI. He was at a titty bar in Scottsdale, ~15-20 miles from his home in Chandler. He had since become a huge advocate of getting taxis and being safe. Mostly from the law, not from each other, because that's what it's become.

Well the titty bar he was leaving (Babes, for those of you familiar) had parking mostly in the rear, i.e. not visible from the street, thus a vandal's dream. He pulled out of there to go to a laundry <1/2 mile away, and had already called a cab. Well a cop was camped in the parking lot of the antique stores across from the bar and popped him for an illegal turn (by law you must turn into the first lane, he turned into the third lane because he needed to make a fairly immediate left turn...not to mention that loose turns are the #1 indicator of drunk driving).

The reason I know he wasn't BSing was that the turn was away from his home, I used to live right by that laundry, and I know what a zealot he had become. He was putting the public at negligible danger driving on an empty six lane road ~1/3 mile to park his car and get a cab home. But whatever, right? I don't remember his BAC reading but I knew it didn't fall under the extreme rules. To his credit, he tells this story with no apologies and no complaints, and only upon prompting.

No apologies and no complaints. Does it suck that people like that get DUIs? Yeah. I'm glad he had already called a cab and hopefully the issue didn't screw up his insurance or whatever. Keep in mind that obviously different jurisdictions have different regulations. Some places may have more leeway with borderline breathalyzers. Apparently Arizona isn't one of them. Minnesota, the state where nothing is allowed, may have some room for judgment.

So, really, your friend was a victim of the technicality of the law. I will never say EVERY drunk driver is a menace, but if you don't want to only prosecute DUI when they hurt somebody, sometimes there will be people who get pinched on a close call. It happens.

you're right, it was uncalled for. next time i'll just point out that you're a dick.

i haven't "been through this" since i don't read every thread in OOT, so my apologies if the official indisputable OOT stance is that 0.08 doesn't affect your ability to drive.

Bull. [censored]. [censored]. Move to where I've lived my whole life and you will know better.

1) I was pulled over after 1AM (bar time) for driving north on Scottsdale Rd. when the cop and I were the only two on the road. He followed me for 2+ miles and said I was "weaving". Yeah right, jackass, it's just you and me on the road do you think I would be driving anything but the straightest line in the world? Weirder yet, I had recently had my car broken into and my wallet stolen and as such had no driver's license, nor for whatever reason proof of insurance nor registration. Yet he let me go without a ticket, why would he do this? Becuase he pulled me over for no reason and realized I wasn't drunk, that's why.

2) A year or two later I was driving with two friends and again it was just me and a cop on the road at bar time. He was ahead of me as I approached a four-way stop. He made a left, I made a VERY complete stop, yet he flipped a bitch and pulled me over. Reason? I "didn't make a complete stop". You know, [censored] that. I goddamned well made a complete stop BECAUSE I KNEW HE WAS WATCHING. But again, I wasn't drunk, he figured this out pretty quickly and let me go.

3) about a year after that I was pulled over in late afternoon going to play street pickup basketball with a friend of mine. Our crime? Being two guys wearing t-shirts and driving together, i.e. profiling. Again, I wasn't doing anything wrong so I was let go.

If you honestly think you can't be pulled over for any reason you are kidding yourself, and could be in for a rude awakening.

the only country i see between Algeria and Andorra is American Samoa. where is this America you speak of?

Do you have a link to any of these studies?

The obvious problem here is that when arrests double, it means there is a decent chance that the population (on the whole) didnt change its behaviour, either because they didnt know about the new law or chose to ignore it. If that is true, the fact that accident rates are similar is expected.


I tried to find something on google scholar, but couldnt. However, there was a good article showing that the law change in Denmark from 0.08 to 0.05 BAC (evidently some of Europe uses BAC), didnt have an effect on accident rates. And it appeared to be a pretty solid look at all the variables, though it admittedly had a smallish sample size of 10 months.

this would have worked a lot better without that quote up there.

anyway, this sub-discussion is pointless. we should prob. stop.

So, what you're telling me is that the cops in your area suck and may make up a reason or exaggerate their suspicions. I'm sorry that happens. And you know what, since you're so up in arms about this, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm lucky enough to live in areas where the cops don't suck. However, you didn't exactly disprove my statement. They had a reason, and I wasn't there. I never even said they had to be perfectly, beyond a shadow of a doubt right about their reason. I've been pulled over twice for kinda weak reasons (1 for not coming to a complete stop, and 1 for not signaling a lane change) but I wasn't drunk either.

I guess it always goes to the quality of police where you live. And as I said, there's one REALLY easy way to not get DUI's even if you choose to live in a place with cops who will stop you for weak reasons.

lol BASIC

BAC per cent is the same as BAC per mille. my guess is they measure it/quote it per mille in denmark, but i could be worng. they likely converted it for the article.

you are right. next time i will say united statesian of america.

Yeah, there's one easy way to avoid a DUI, which is to call a cab. The problem is that there's a risk/reward issue here. Cabs are ridiculously expensive, and I won't be able to go out and party as often due to financial restraints if I go down that road. You do hear about celebrities getting DUIs quite often, but I'd bet that middle and lower class people receive them at much higher rates.