I think factors like those you mention are taken into account when calculating V1. Per Wikipedia:

We typically climb at a minimum of 2000'/minute. If we're lightly loaded, we'll often see 3500-4000 feet minute on the initial climb. Once, in an empty MD-88, we had the VSI pegged which means we were doing over 6000'/minute.

Right after takeoff, we accelerate to V2 speed which, like V1 and VR, is calculated for each takeoff. This speed gives us maximum climb (altitude is our friend!) and is a safe climb speed in the event of an engine failure right after takeoff.

At 1000' AGL, we reduce power to climb power (easier on the engines) and lower the nose slightly to accelerate and clean up the plane (raise the flaps). We'll accelerate to 250 kts and maintain that through 10,000' MSL.

This will be based on aircraft weight, winds and turbulence reports. The usual range I've seen is from 32,000 to 39,000. For the higher cruise altitudes, we often have to start the flight lower due to aircraft weight and then climb later as we burn off fuel.

The descents are often dictated by the STAR (Standard Terminal Arrival Route). I just flew in to JFK yesterday morning from LAS and we flew the LENDY5 Arrival. As you can see here, it has some altitudes that we can expect from ATC (HARTY at or below FL230; LENDY at FL190 and 250 kts):



When left to our own devices on a descent (no altitude restrictions), we use the old 3-to-1 rule, i.e. figure 3 nm per 1000 feet of altitude. So 30 miles out we don't want to be much more than 10,000 feet over airport elevation. If we're up at FL360, we'll probably be asking ATC for a descent if we're getting close to 100 nm from the airport. This isn't usually necessary as the controllers are aware of our descent capabilities, but every once in a while we do have to ask.

There's an old story about ATC issuing a late descent clearance to cross a certain fix at a specific altitude. The Captain responds, "We're not going to be able to make that restriction." ATC replies, "Don't you have spoilers on that plane?", to which the Captain replied, "Those are for my mistakes, not yours." (Yes, this passed for humor when I first heard it 25 years ago.)

In the U.S. there is a 250 kt speed limit below 10,000 MSL. Speeds on approach are often assigned by the approach controller as determined by her current traffic flow. At JFK, we'll often be asked to maintain 180 kts to the marker (about 5 miles from the runway). At the 5 mile point, we then drop the gear and get the final flaps setting and slow to approach speed (~130 kts on my approach yesterday morning).

If no speed is assigned, we may configure a mile or two earlier, but the marker is a good point at which to be fully configured for landing. If the weather is really bad with low ceilings, we'll get it all done earlier to get the approach really stabilized for a longer straight-in final approach.

Here again, we kind of rely on the 3-to-1 rule. That would put us at about 1500' at the marker. We don't often fly a VFR rectangular pattern like GA planes fly at uncontrolled airports; we're usually vectored onto the final approach course. I'd be comfortable flying a VFR pattern at 1500-2000'.

I look at this thread almost every day, but I don't always have the time to respond to the depth that I'd like so I put it off. Your post, for example, was one that I didn't want to answer with just one or two sentences.

this thread is incredible. im sure someone will archieve it to make sure its available. it would also make a great book imo.


ive been watching some of these extreme crosswind landings on utube why is it that the pilot seems to always get the plane straight with the runway at the last moment? i.e. the plane comes in askew and they decend , and then at what looks like 30 feet they make the correction, but not until then?

I have no idea what that sound was, but I don't think it had anything to do with the turbulence. Kind of sounded like some sort of harmonic in the ventilation system, but that's just a wild guess.

Has anyone else read this thread and thought "I could never be a pilot." ?

For some time I thought it would be interesting to take some lessons, but I think I'm officially scared away by all of the details involved.

Good question. V1 marks the point at which you no longer have enough runway to guarantee stopping safely. Vr is the speed at which you rotate the nose upward to takeoff. In most large aircraft there is a difference between the two speeds, usually only a few knots but sometimes (e.g. on a slippery snow covered runway) as much as 15 knots. Stopping after V1 probably means going off the end of the runway and would be considered "pilot error" in any post-accident investigation. It will also get you a bust on a check ride in the sim.

If the runway is so long that you still have plenty left under all conditions, then V1 doesn't really exist, but for consistency sake it is considered to occur at the same time as Vr. You say "V1-rotate" in one breath, and after that you are also going flying. In this case, it makes no sense to consider stopping after V1 because you've already initiated the takeoff rotation. I've seen V1=Vr many times at JFK (runway 31L is 14,572 ft long).

thanks for answering.. another question.. more of a noob one: on final approach if you have your left hand on the throttle(this is if you're first officer on the plane) and your right hand on the yoke is it easier to control if the first officer is right handed(majority of the time).. and if you make the switch to the captains seat for the first time would it take a while to get used to having your left hand controlling the yoke..

i have a yoke and throttle system for my flight sim and I find it harder to control when switching the throttle for the captain set-up..I presume it's just after time you'll become more used to it I suppose?

That would be when landing with a cross wind.

Have you ever opened one of these windows on a Delta jet? If so, why? Do all jets have this ability?



FWIW, that was a Delta jet (they showed the whole plane a few seconds before that).

I just came in from Las Vegas on Saturday morning and I landed on Runway 04R with a stiff crosswind (320 degrees at 18 gusting 25 kts). If you had watched my landing, it would have been just as you describe.

Coming down final approach, the nose will be pointed into the wind so that we track down the localizer. We can't land with this crab angle so at some point we have to transition to a wing down, cross-controlled configuration. It's really not that difficult, but not every pilot does it well.

Basically, the nose needs to be pointed so that it aligns with the centerline. In my case, this means pushing the right rudder pedal to bring the nose to the right and point it straight down the runway. If I don't add any other input, the airplane will start to drift to the right (downwind) which is unacceptable (due to sideloads on the gear and, more importantly, maybe not even landing on the runway!). So, to keep the plane from drifting, I add left aileron. How much? Enough to stop the drift. It's kind of like trying to tell a new driver how much to turn the steering wheel to make a turn. It's hard to quantify.

So now I've got right rudder and left aileron (cross-controls) which produces a wing down into the wind and touchdown will be on the upwind wheel (if done properly).

There's really no reason you couldn't introduce the cross-control technique much sooner, even miles from the runway, but it would make an uncomfortable final approach for the passengers since the plane is not in coordinated flight during this time (i.e. there will be a feeling of slipping sideways in your seat).

That's the "unintended consequence" of going into (maybe) too much detail on some of these answers. Basic flying can be very simple and it's a skill that most people can acquire. I could probably have you ready to solo an airplane in no more than 7 or 8 hours of training.

I would really feel bad to think I actually scared someone away from learning to fly. If it makes you feel any better, I've just made up most of the stuff in this thread. It really comes down to just two things: pull back, houses get smaller; push forward, houses get bigger.

But seriously, if you were really interested in learning to fly then go take an introductory flight and see what you think.

Yeah, it's just something you get used to. I'm right handed and I've flown from both seats. As a check airman at my previous job, I often switched between seats several times during the month, depending on whether I was giving training to a new Captain or a new FO. The first time any FO upgrades to Captain, switching hands does take some getting used to but everyone adapts.

I think every airliner (aka transport category or Part 25 aircraft) has this feature. It provides an emergency exit for the crew. We actually have ropes in storage compartments in the cockpit ceiling which are used to escape out the window.

I've often opened my window, usually when the cockpit is uncomfortably hot or cold. I had this happen just last week...got to the plane and they had conditioned air attached to the plane pumping in very hot air. We both opened our windows to get some cool air.

I've also had a couple of times where the Captain opened his window to pass something (usually paperwork) to the gate agent without opening the main door.

Hey W0X0F,

I was reading a Canadian news report about a UFO citing on the east coast of Canada at sunset and the logical explanation seemed to be jet trails reflecting in the sunlight. One thing they said seemed odd to me though. They said,

"I've seen this several times," he said of the effect created when transatlantic aircraft, which often travel in pairs, reflect sunlight far overhead after daylight has faded on the ground."

Do planes really travel in pairs? I've never heard of this.

Here's the full story.

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/100201/K020102AU.html

That's a super confusing line, I agree...

if for some reason you push forward on the yoke in a small aircraft (like a cessna 172) at takeoff speed, will you just stay planted on the ground or will this create a major problem like flipping the plane?

I would imagine you would stay on the ground and go off the end of the runaway. Or flip. Either way bad things for sure.

tires could blow out..plane might take off either..thats what usually happens in the flight sim on my computer lol

How much weight allowance is there in a 767 for things like mail and counter to counter freight. Do passenger aircraft carry any containerized freight (LD3's?)?

W0X0F,

I'm assuming you've flown out of Orange County (SNA) before--can you talk about the special takeoff procedure there where the throttles are cut back during the climb for noise abatement reasons?

As a passenger it's a bit unnerving as you get the sensation that the plane is falling. Is there a actual altitude or airspeed loss, or does it just feel that way? Is there any extra risk in cutting the power back like that?

How do you feel about this story about air marshalls?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/04/air...ex.html?hpt=C1

CLIFFS: The entire air marshall program is a joke and a waste of money.

Didn't we all sort of suspect this?

And regardless, do we really want this REPORTED?

Arg, head asplode with ethical dilemma/illusion of safety shattering.

When do you reference mach, and when do you use indicated airspeed (IAS)? Why is there a difference?

i was listening to HPN tower a few days ago and the controller asked an aircraft on approach (think it was a jet) to say airspeed. planes were landing with a pretty stiff headwind and the plane answered and tower said something like "your ground speed is saying 70 (much less than the indicated airspeed) and the pilot in the plane said something like "sheesh wow"

so the question is...

could a plane theoretically be in controlled flight but going 0 knots (or maybe even backward) in relation to the ground? similarly, if you are tied down in the parking lot but turn on all your master switches and avionics and you are facing a 30 mph headwind. does your IAS get into the green?

it would be hard for even a light jet on approach to encounter a 100 knot headwind...and cessna trainers shouldnt be flown in winds of greater than 15 knots (i think) so irl it doesnt happen but maybe in theoryland?

what if the plane was on a treadm...oh wait, never mind.

I flew a 172 to the WSOP one year landing at the North Las Vegas airport. There was such a strong headwind blowing straight down the runway, it seemed the plane rolled out less than 100 feet from touchdown to dead stop.