Great post Doug

Here's a real life ex for u too bro..

Me n a few other sng regs were doin great in $5 sngs... I was making an avg of .50 a game pre rb.. Some of my buddies a lil better, $1 a game.. I said, man.. If I play 100games a day, move stakes a lil.. I can easy make 70ish a day w rb... Well the plan sounded great.. Moved to very low overhead, and started beasting.... Well USA traffic is a lil weak, and 2months in, one site really killed one of my networks... So getting 40 games a day was tough... It's a lot of stress . unless u have a good $ cushion it's rough ... I play part time now.. Make a lil $ as well as a few other hustles.. My buddy's r still roughin it, multi site ing etc.. To make money poker only... B prepared for anything.

Part of the appeal when I started playing Poker was that I live in a country where you don't have to pay taxes on your winnings. If I lived in a country where I did have to, then I wouldn't have bothered playing.

I would look at it from the opposite perspective. If you're comparing poker to other forms of earning a living, the fact that poker earnings would be tax free as opposed to a salary or being otherwise self-employed, then that slants the financial aspect more in favor of giving poker a shot.

If poker is taxed like other earnings then comparing income potential is apples to apples.

I think we're arguing the same point

To me, the whole tax discussion is like the rake one. Either you beat the game based on real world conditions, or you don't. Being a poker pro is being self employed. Would you invest the time and money in that business? Understand your own situation and make a good decision. If the world were different. Who cares? If you live in a non taxing jurisdiction, the situation is different.

Jeez with the taxes already (Edit: I see the posts have now been deleted).

One, you're not a special snowflake that's entitled to withhold your income from the IRS. Pay your share just like every other W2 employee does.

Two, playing poker for a living is not illegal, so why do you want to live like a drug dealer?

Three, when the IRS catches up to you, tax evasion is not a slap on the wrist.

Friends of my parents were into real estate when I was growing up. The dad owned duplexes all over the place. He was balling for decades. Years later, the family had lived on both coasts off and on for about 10 years, and we lost touch with them. Then they basically vanished.

Turns out he wasn't being a good boy. About 10 more years later, and I saw him in the local news due to shoplifting food from a supermarket (think a while and you'll figure out why a shoplifting incident would be on the news). He went from SL500's to SLfood.

Even Wesley Snipes did 3 years in the pen, and that was after his felony evasion/conspiracy counts were thrown out (of course penalties and back taxes made a good payday for the gov. Who knows how much on 40 million, but I'd imagine he's on an installment plan). His CPA can no longer practice and is doing 10 years.

Having been through an audit where poker claims were the subject of their examination, it was nice being able facepalm.jpg them on every inquiry. In the end, they found a deduction that I wasn't taking so I guess you could say I came out ahead, but you know, I would have rather been playing poker (it was the boom, after all) or anything else for that matter, rather than digging up records for suits.

well I would assume no one here wants to break tax laws...
so as any other "home business" file ur taxes, claim ur losses etc, write off your expenses.

you deff want to show some income, so u can get credit etc.

So here's my internal conflict at the moment.

This is not a whimsical, "YA IM GOOD AT POKER I WANT TO BE A PRO!" post

I am a full time Paramedic. I make ~$50k per year working an average of 48 hours per week.

Over the last 6 months or so, I've been consistently building my online bankroll (Bovada/ACR) to the point at which I'm making $50/hr, and have been putting in a solid 30 hours per week. I'm 27 years old and have been playing poker since I was 18 years old, and my new schedule of 2 24 hour shifts per week has allowed me to focus on studying and mastering the game.

I'm married, my wife supports my goals, and realizes that this is my dream.

My total monthly bills total ~$2500, my wife does work, and I would be able to get health insurance on a family plan through her, I've done the appropriate Tax investigation and have a CPA who will handle my accounting and help with the legal ramifications.

My job allows me to become per diem and work sporadically and I would always have a fall back job in the event that I don't want to continue with this dream for whatever reason.

I realistically could make twice to three times more than I currently do even factoring taxes on my poker hourly wage.

I think I have to try.... I would regret it if I don't capitalize on this unique opportunity in my life to try this.

Since it is May now, my goal would be to continue to work my job full time until the end of 2014, and attempt to win enough to cover my mortgage, bills, and living costs for all of 2015. I feel that this will give me ample time to prepare and decide if this is for me.

Longer term my goal is to pay off all of my debts with poker income, and to have minimal bills, at which point I feel I will be free to pursue whatever goals I want to, be it poker or otherwise.

I'm looking for advise, comments, encouragement, discouragement, anything productive really. Advise from pros who have done this in the past would be particularly helpful.

Thanks

- Danny A.

Based on the facts as stated by you, this is about the least ridiculous "I want to go pro" post I ever can recall seeing here.

My concern would be to query the sample size that leads to your estimation that you make $50/hour and whether you aren't in fact just running hot. Since you intend to play 30 hours a week for the next 7 months as an ongoing trial and not quit your job until you have a year's worth of expenses saved up, you will neccessarily arrive at a more precise win rate.

Anyone considering going pro should read Danny's post

• makes more playing poker than his job
• track record of winning
• large BR earned playing cards
• could go back to job
• plays near full time now

You are already a pro. Do as you wish. Best of luck. The next thing to consider is your long term prospects for growing your business. Can you ever make more than you do now, without just playing insane hours? Do you have options if one of the US facing sites goes ponzi scheme?

I'd also consider passive income. Can your liferoll earn money on its own? Does your state have prospects for real, legal gaming? Are you a blogging type? How's your 2+2 brand? Look at TheDefiniteArticle and dgiharris as examples or people who contribute to the poker community and are known.

I've just finished university so the most natural thing for me to do is to play poker for a temporary living, the duration of this is still unknown to me.
I currently play 100NL online and 1/2 - 2/5 live. I honestly don't think it's worth playing poker trying to earn ~50k/year, it may be a lot of money in comparison to the real world but i think with the mental stress, long hours and commitment to the game doesn't make it worth it anymore.
I'm currently going through a downswing/breakeven stretch in the live games (where most of my play is). Although i have enough money to live off for the rest of the year, possibly even less now that i'm going to vegas for the summer, i still don't like the thought the next month can still continue to be a bad month.
If someone offered me a 30K/year right now i'd probably snap take it just so that i have that peace of mind that i have secure income.

Is this a question or a response to DannyA1103? He's saying he's making $100k/year -ish, playing poker.

If you're asking about you, I say don't do it.
Sounds like you want a job. That's fine, the generic question in the thread is "Should I Be A Pro Poker Player?" You say no, a couple of ways. I tend to believe anyone with a negative answer.

Thanks for the advice/comment/compliment!

I definitely have grander plans for a poker-focused career. I live in MA, and they are on the doorsteps of adding multiple Casinos and legalizing online poker is reportedly not too far off once the gambling laws are structured from what I understand. There's also Foxwoods in CT a few hours away as well. I dabble in live Hold Em currently, but my seriousness on that front hasn't been approached yet. I would like to pair live 2/5 with my online play soon enough.

I have not pushed the bounds of the nosebleeds by any means and have stayed in the comfort zone of the midstakes as I progress and learn, so I sincerely feel that I can increase my win rate as time goes on. I plan to soup up my office setup to include 3 monitors, a better internet connection, top notch software, the works. I'm approaching 2014 as my startup-prep, like a typical entrepreneur., build a business plan etc... I do believe that $100/hr+, while extremely difficult and lofty, is possible.

I have a fair amount of interest in Real Estate / Wall Street investing, and that also drives this shift. While I make a solid living, and can afford my bills, I could get far more ahead playing poker than saving lives (absurd irony in there for sure), and thusly could focus on passive income further down the line. I've been focusing on new goals constantly.

I definitely am aware that the US market place has it's risks, and thus I will minimize the actual $ amount I keep on the sites and maintain my bankroll in the safety of my bank accounts and withdraw frequently.

I've been more an observer/student of the 2+2 message boards to this point but I will certainly contemplate becoming more active.

I've failed at what I'm accomplishing now many many times due to lack of structure and focus. I read 2 books that I would say completely revolutionized my thought process: Treating Your Poker Like A Business, and The Mental Game of Poker. The things that have nothing to do with technical poker ability were what was truly holding me back.

I would definitely appreciate some blogging advice if you have any, I actually have a great passion for writing but over time life got in the way of it to an extent.

- Danny A

Ya Danny.. Ur in a good spot to do it..

Most important line in there is having enough money to cover a years expenses.

Mistake many players have made (incl myself) was not having enough "life roll" saved b4 switching to only playing poker full time .

Rule of thumb is 6mos... A year is even better..

It's way too stressful living paycheck to paycheck playing poker, cause some weeks there's gonna be some run bad variance.

When ur making great hourly playin part time, you always think your good to go full time.
But there's a lil more to it.


Gl

Thanks man! Ya I def want to have that safe nest egg.

I think the keys now are ensuring consistent winnings for the rest of this year, maintaining the fire to play, and having my bills squared away.

A nice part is that my wife makes an income as well ~50k or so as well, and trust me, my poker playing plan goes no where without the wife's green light

And also I'll still be working a shift or 2 as a Paramedic per month in order to break up any monotony and maintain a career fallback.

Even assuming $1k/ week on average from now until December, in addition to my actual income, I'll have more than enough to have my mortgage, car payments, and essentially all of my bills.

I'm going to have to push myself to 40 hour weeks but I've found that 4 night sessions (~9p-2a), and 3 day sessions (~1030a-5p) are a nice easy way to break up the week for me.

- Danny A.

If you can still put a few hours in as a paramedic and your figures are accurate then go for it imo.

this is key, grinding must be pretty lonely

IMO the hardest thing about playing as a career is the time of day (mainly fri/sat nights). I'm in college and that conflicts with just about everything fun haha. I would imagine this would be hard when married, it's definitely has been hard for my relationships. Its ideal if your significant other works odd hours as well, but it sounds like you are definitely headed in the right direction. GL!

DannyA........ You sound about as prepared as you can be. It still might not work out as well as you want it to, BUT you really seem ready for that too. So take a good shot at it, and best of luck (cause that never hurts even the best prepared players)!!

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate the different perspectives.

In terms of working nights and weekends, my current schedule has me sleeping away from home 2 days a week (I work Weds-Thurs. 7a-7a and Sat-Sun 7a-7a). 2 24 hour shifts, one of which I sacrifice a whole weekend day anyway, so anything would be an upgrade from that imo. Also my wife is sort of an early bird, in bed and asleep by 9 typically and I've always been a night owl, and on my off days I spend time with her and play after she's asleep until ~2a, and sleep in until I want.

I'm thinking I've got all of my angles covered. It seems I'm going to have to jump over to the Goals thread and make this 2+2 official....

- Danny A

We'll I'm 24 and finally got enough to move out and play for a living at the local casino. However this is easier said than done and I would like to ask you guys some questions about so,ex road blocks I've encountered.

1) I have no proof of income and got denied when I filled out a apartment lease application
2) what do you guys put down as job title because many people won't lease to a poker player because they feel I have a gambling problem
3) no pay stubs. People won't lease to someone who doesn't have pay stubs that prove there is a current source of income
4) what do you guys do to separate life rolls from poker rolls. For example I was paying a car payment out of my poker bankroll which sits at a little less than 12k. Life roll is around 400 bucks and I keep it in the bank. And add to it out of my poker roll
5) do you keep a separate bank account for your poker roll. Right now I just have 12k in a nike shoebox

Please enlighten me and guide me in the best way you guys know.

With zero experience of renting apartments as a poker player but some of renting out a property, I would want to see the following:

- Bank statements and a covering memorandum that explains your income for a period of at least 1 year.
- An offer to pay more of the rent up front i.e. if they want 4 weeks, you offer to pay 12 weeks (or whatever).

Once you are actually in a place, it's less of a problem. Landlords like tenants whose only interaction is paying the rent on time so if you do that it's all good.

You should have enough money (seperate from your bankroll) to cover all your expenses for like a minimum of 3 months anyway IMO.

For most 'real' appartments they'll reject you instantly when unable to show proof of income. You could let (one of) your parents co-sign / stand bail for you. Your chances are significantly higher when you co-signed with someone having real credit to their name that they can rely on when/if you would ever stop paying them.

Your chances of finding just a (liveable size) single-room rent itself are way higher in the private market if you can provide no proof of income etc. Sure, you'd be sharing some stuff like the bathroom with other people at first, but that's not considered very unusual for people your age. And since you're just moving out, needing to take complete care of yourself for the first time, I'm sure a few close-by neighbors can also come in handy every now and then. Plus with most of these contracts you can leave within a month so you can leave pretty soon if you don't like it. And if you're not breaking the house down and always pay on time you'll have a few previous rental references to show next time you'll fill in that apartment lease application, they do help. Paying a few months in advance can also help.

As for your job title, just go for student (starting next year)
GL

Make friends with someone who owns a small biz, these are generally the daytime regs that you play poker with. Assuming your not a stiff at the table, you can convince someone to let you put them down as a reference a say that you work for them. Couple that with throwing a couple $K down up front and you should be fine. Otherwise, just look for a non apartment place to stay that doesn't need paperwork to move in, like renting a house or a room from someone.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...hread-1323281/

Look at this thread ...

And if your thread doesn't get merged ... think seriously as to if your questions hasen't been answered before before posting on this subject again