Hey guys,

I'm a recreational player. Had some decent showings at live no limit and was considering in the past to pursue playing online poker full-time.

I checked out news for online poker and saw this article:

https://www.pokernews.com/news/2017/...onen-27276.htm


What do you guys think the future of online or live poker (5 to 10 years)? Do you see it still trending downwards? The live casino scene doesn't seem to be too bad.

I'm wondering if it's still worth it to pursue poker as a professional and if there's still really good money to be made

Thanks!

Better off doing something else

"Good money" is relative to what else is available to you. Online poker (especially in the 'western world') is clearly declining. It's no longer worthwhile for Jens to play (he was literally a teenage millionaire), but if you're trying to pay some of your college expenses (or just got laid off from a job) in Romania, the Philippines or Port Talbot, or somewhere else where the alternatives aren't so great, poker might still be worth the time investment to you. FWIW, I've noticed more and more online grinders moving towards becoming live grinders or casual MTT players.

A Question for Nostradamus, I dare say.

Online is already orders of magnitude more difficult than live games and it's only getting worse. Like Arty said, in places with a very low cost of living it could easily be better than the alternatives for some time yet, but anywhere in the west it's getting pretty hopeless.

IMO, online at the moment is fine but extremely difficult on a professional level.

3 years from now you will definitely have to be an expert playing different poker variants.

5+ years from now will depend heavily on political dealings in the poker market.

On the other hand if you asked me 5 years ago what it would be like today I wouldn't have guessed spin and goes or power up games so it's still a pretty hard thing to predict.

I think software is going to be the killing blow, 5 years from now I wouldn't be surprised to see real-time solver programs commonly available.

Hey there Zen, I think that online poker is almost dead because of all the programs there are and all the other things have went on with online poker. In 3-5 years, only bots will play online poker. I have read several articles, saying that universities are making poker bots and having poker bot contests.

I live in Calgary(there 4-5 casinos here and action is available) and I knew some, players that played online poker but have now stopped and switched to live poker because they say is beatable(I knew this played who played online poker and I asked him, this question and his answer was simple "not worth it.)

They are available now but in 5 years they will much better.

The irony is that online poker is actually returning to poker's roots as a game mainly consisting of cheating. A superuser in the background looking the hole cards is really just a sophisticated version of using mirrors or marking cards. A bot is nothing not much different than signalling a player on what to do next.

RFID is already used in televised live tournaments to know the hole cards. I expect there to be a scandal eventually where a player has a reader near the muck. So live isn't going to be immune, either.

Poker is going to continue to get tougher and tougher to win at. However, live game in particular are going to be where the easier games are. I play 2/5 almost everyday live and there are always bad players in the game that are willing to give away money. They'll always be that live recreational player whereas online will continue to get tougher. I would always advise someone to have a job and just play on the side. I think you'll be much happier that way

Get a JOB!!!

You're just saying this so there is one less pro at the table. More money for you!

I have always thought that technology should be banned at a live table (yes, including cell phones and headphones.)

I always turn my phone off before the start of a tournament because I don't need extra distractions--but many players don't do that. When someone is furiously typing on their phone during play, I always think that two players with their phones on is a perfect setup for collusion. My local charity poker room has husbands and wives, best friends and other combinations of players that know each other and might be inclined to collude to bring the money home.

As for your poker software concern, a "no tech" rule would ensure that a live player, not his computing device, is figuring out how much to bet.

I think no tech at a table would be good, but it would be boring and you'd get a lot of push back for that.

Poker will still be around, but probably in a form that hasn't been analysed to death like NLHE is being

I think what we're seeing in online poker is essentially a predator-prey model where the reg population lags the rec population. As the recs die off (as they have been for the past several years) the regs who cannot profit anymore will die off aswell. Repeat cycle

Yes, what's good money for someone is very situational. I was in a charity poker room a few years ago and I heard two very young guys talking. It went something like this:

Q How much do you make playing these tournaments?
A I figured it out and I'm making minimum wage.
Q And you're happy with that?
A It beats working at McDonalds!

I'm 61 and I recently started playing poker full-time. If I can make 10K a year by the time my wife retires that will be a very big deal. Here is the situation that makes it work for me;

1. My wife has worked for the same hospital since she was 16 (she's 63 now.) She started her retirement saving the day she started working, so we already have some pretty decent money for retirement.

2. I was in the army for 26 years and I get retirement pay.

3. We live very frugally. We drove the same car for 15 years, until our mechanic said that there were holes in the floor and it was unsafe. We got another car last year, made a down payment of 25% and it will be paid off before my wife retires. We will have no debt at that time. No car debt, no mortgage (we own it free and clear), nothing.

4. We live in an area with a very low cost of living. You can buy a decent 3-bedroom house for 40K.

5. Because I am a retired soldier my wife and I can fly free, on a space available basis, anywhere in the US that a military flight is going. That could get me to a lot of casinos, or to anyplace else that my wife and I would like to visit in her retirement. I have no interest in retiring and I will play poker full-time until I'm too old to see the cards or hear the dealer. Hey, Doyle won a WSOP bracelet at age 76.

The extra 10K I would bring to the deal would be a good boost to an already pretty good retirement situation, and make the retirement savings last a lot longer.

The young man in the poker room was fine with making minimum wage in a charity poker room. Some players are in college and play poker for spending money. I read a post a few years ago from a single mother who made her living grinding cash games while her kids were in school.

If you're happy with what you're making and you have all of your bases covered (insurance, retirement, housing, college fund for the kids, etc.) then for you it's good money.

Yes, poker has been and always will be analyzed. Generals since the civil war have applied poker concepts to their decisions. But I'm not sure it makes a big a difference as you think.

Chess has been analyzed to the point that computers can beat the best human players--but people still put down money to compete in chess tournaments. Chess isn't nearly as popular as poker, but I don't think that a computer beating a human has stopped very many people that were already playing. Schools still have chess clubs.. There used to be a regular tournament in my city and I played. If it was revived I would definitely but down my money and play it again.

Yes there is all kinds of information out there to be studied--but unless you play online nosebleed stakes, I doubt that most of your opponents think about GTO bluffing frequencies or how to put together a three-betting range against a loose-aggressive opponent.

I once had a poker friend that was curious about my books. I handed him Harrington on Holdem. As soon as he saw a page with a lot of math he closed the book and handed it back to me. He never asked about my poker books again and I doubt that he ever read one. Of course, he's convinced that he is a good player.

The fish will always be with us.

There is no future, time is a subjective construct. Obv.

I guess move to Adelaide. No phones and no headphones is the rule at tables. Apparently they're currently considering allowing headphones, but only with things like ipods which can't communicate. Still no phones.

Actually, this couldn't be more wrong. All the way down to micro stakes, regs are thinking about GTO and 3betting ranges. Just look around 2+2 and even 2nl regs are discussing these concepts.

I didn't see any tech at the National Spelling Bee, which is right in the age group (up to 8th grade) for cell phone addiction. There is no reason that poker can't be regulated the same way.

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>Poker is still banned online throughout great land of United States of America
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I heard poker future looks bright and online poker has been legalized and regulated in three US states like Delaware, New Jersey and Nevada.