Wow. You're incredibly ignorant. I guess that's what happens when you live in an echo chamber. There are many dozens of studies that show they don't work. And many dozens of studies that show they do. How does someone get as ignorant as you? Even the pro mask reviews say the evidence of a "very low reliability".


I see your anecdotal evidence and raise you:



Masks were mandated indoors in Belgium and France between the 10th and 20th of July. They were mandated in the Czech Republic in September. Cases are now 100x (one hundred times) higher than when masks were mandated.

I guess the studies never got the memo? If only the virus had read your (cherry picked) mask studies and followed the religion of "masks make a huge difference", France wouldn't be in lockdown right now.

And here is a comprehensive list of positive and negative studies...there are dozens of studies from the best medical journals that show that masks don't work: https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

USA is still less than 2 weeks behind both Europe and USA.
USA will possibly breach 100k new cases today.

USA is now at 7-day rolling average of 232 cases per million.
Europe was at that level at Oct 23, European Union at Oct 20.

Anyone want to guess when TS will admit he was wrong when this stays the trend ?

Belgium is in lockdown light again, as I expected.
Our hospital peak will be significantly higher than W1. To be seen how much death, but we'll be number 1 again .

Just to be clear, you're from the top country:



Hyperventilating about the rate of case climb in the bottom country? And blaming it on the leadership for lack of masks (when Belgium has had full masks since it was 100x lower) and telling me that I was wrong on my (carefully explained and correctly reasoned) contention that R>>>>baseline?

Do I have that right? I can't quite get my head around the level of denial, so just want to be sure I have that right.

You and the rest of the clown posse also doubted that Europe would be above the US in deaths in a month or "ever again". I said the walking dead were already higher in Europe than the USA and would be >95% to be higher in a month, you laughed. A mere 16 days later Europe is almost vertical on deaths, overtaking the US a few days ago.

Now you fantasize about me being wrong sometime in the future? I love it. Just pure denial.

Perhaps too simplistic but an excellent vid on why masks do help. The only question is to what degree, not IF they do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y47t9qLc9I4

Except it's completely wrong as you can see in Belgium, France, and 30 other countries and states.

My anecdotal evidence of plane travel in the mask wearing debate is considerably stronger than any wide ranging country by country behavioral anecdotal evidence because plane travel is a controlled setting where the only change is mask wearing.

I think I've made it pretty clear in the past is that I don't care about your jabs at Belgium, it's not why I'm here, and I really don't care.

I'm here for information, discussion, and proving what an absolute lunatic you have become. Regarding that last point, I am just waiting until the moment is there where you pivot away from your "USA herd immunity will make it have an easy Winter", and then I'll be satisfied. Would be a nice bonus if you also pivot away from your mask position.

It's the same, expected, result as the Lilly trial: antibody therapy doesn't seem to help if you're already severely sick with the virus. And just like the Lilly trial, the arm with people who are much earlier in the disease course, where you'd expect to see a positive result from antibodies if there's going to be one, hasn't released any data yet.

The fact that so many brick and mortar companies are requiring them (knowing lots of their consumers don’t like them) is pretty good evidence of their efficacy as well. To supplement the overwhelming science.

Every major non-partisan medical organization says masks work.
Major businesses with the most to lose and that don’t need to force people to wear them require them.

AAPS, a clear partisan entity, has a bunch of studies from before 2020 studying other stuff, and a few cherry-picked studies post 2020 (some of which imply mask efficacy).

You’re losing this argument. Still. You’re failing the class.

Let's see:

- You thought I was a loony to say R>>>>>>baseline and argued vehemently against me (I've been proved right)

- You thought I was a loony to say, two weeks ago, that Europe had a higher number of walking dead, and I said Europe was 95% to overtake the US in daily deaths. You and OAFK11 were incredulous. You went as far to say that Europe would "never" overtake the US again.

I mean, the loony is you. Arguing vehemently against a guy who gets proven right over and over.

Actually, I said I expect the winter to be bad everywhere, but that the US is in a much better position than Europe thanks to partial herd immunity and won't need a national lockdown, only in hotspots. I didn't say the US will have it easy. It will do a lot better than Europe however. This is how it's playing out so far.

My mask position is correct. The data is in. Ultra loser level failures like Belgium and Czechia had mask mandates. They soared at incredibly rapid rates, harder than the first wave, and they did this outside of flu season, WITH MASKS. How does not that not get through to you that masks were probably net harmful in those countries, due to the false sense of security they created, and the avoidance of actual measures that work?

The entire discussion about what to do about corona developed into mask religionists worshiping this false sense of security, and pointing fingers at places that didn't mandate masks. How did that work out for you? The mask wearing countries are disaster zones while the non mask wearing countries are doing a lot better, despite both starting from the same base.

Let me summarize Tooth's argument so he doesn't have to pivot again:


They are just a bunch of dem cucks. Everyone knows it's dems who are spreading the virus. And minorities. And obviously immigrants too. Why? Because these groups are more permiscuous and less hygienic

Then he'll cite some nut-job rightwing conspiracy source like the AAPS and claim he and he alone has all of the facts while his supporters jerk him off because "Tooth posts DATA"

Expect nothing better from Shuffle McDoomporn.

Firstly, you're wrong. And secondly, every major non-partisan medical organization said not to wear masks in March, from the 50+ years of data on them.

What changed? A bunch of absolutely horseshit studies like this came out:



In which idiots data snooped and using modeling to prove mask wearing worked. The study above claims that mask wearing alone is sufficient to get rid of corona. Absolute horseshit models like this informed policy and a false sense of security. Here's that model tested in the real world with some major mask wearing countries:



Whoops. The loser experts, who were the cause of this pandemic to begin with, struck again, doing a lot of damage.

Businesses follow what the "experts" say.

It's literally a comprehensive list of studies and meta reviews from the BMJ, Lancet, etc. Don't be so allergic to science, it won't bite you. There are other organizations who post similar lists; here is the Center For Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota:

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data

They've been viciously attacked by losers like you (who've become tribal mask religionists rather than rational) so they've had to put some grudging caveats on, but here is there advice if you scroll down:

The data out of Europe overwhelmingly shows I'm winning this argument. Everyone who's not an idiot clearly sees that. You'll see it too. It will take a few months for the cuck experts to do their research on this new cache of data and update their publishings (which now has a masks-help signal that is the exact opposite of the data that informed their position change in June) They'll do this just in time to show that masks don't work (their original expert considered position) just in time for winter, when they actually do

Tooth:

Also Tooth:

tgiggity doesn't know the difference between "now" and "will happen in winter". Where do these idiots come from?

Here's what I've said over and over about the future:
bbfg is such a lunatic he's straight up lying now:
If they had a Nobel Prize for making idiot's brains explode when they disagree with me and I'm later proven right, I'd be at least a nominee.

There is no nuance. Tooth is again backpedaling from a position.

He was unequivocally. Trump and Co, COULD NOT do anything different to get people to comply. Nope. Not possible.

That has now changed to 'well... ummm... they could if the DPM was much higher'.


So that begs the question since the DPM with a novel virus will only be known AFTER it takes a toll, what could Trump and Co then do after the fact, to get compliance and effect that death toll?

And that then leads to 'which of those actions taken, after the fact, were not things that could have been done prior and why?

Tooth again fails the logic test and got trapped and thus now his furious backpedaling, in saying something is possible to do later that was impossible to do prior.

But by all means. Lay it out clearly here. What are the steps and things Trump and Co could have done if AND ONLY IF the DPM was higher? Bullet point them.

You've clearly never read Kerouac, Joyce, Faulkner, David Foster Wallace, or Pynchon.

Masks are a useless sideshow right now. People thought they were highly effective thanks to cuck experts who lack even low level epistemological sophistication, and drew conclusions from first wave data unsupported by the data.

You have four options with corona:

1. Eradication. Impossible in the US and especially inside a state

2. Keep corona very low through lockdowns and severe loss of personal freedoms for 15+ months, with heaps of economic damage and not even good guarantees that will be end of it

3. Manage a burn-through, keeping R controlled, ramping up efforts when R is getting too high and it's showing up in hospitals

4. An extraordinary contact tracing and ground operation, backed up by isolation laws, to keep corona near zero despite high R normal life

I prefer (4), but it requires a lot of energy, intelligence and dedication and a population behind you with good levels of responsibility. Social homogeneity is a prerequisite I think. In reality I think only East Asian and Nordic societies and isolated islands like Australia can achieve this.

The trouble with (4) in the US is that borders between states can't really be closed, and there are large clustered populations with low conscientiousness and low cooperation that will serve as dense seeder sources for corona infection. It's no coincidence that these groups have been the most infected. Good luck contact tracing and isolating in groups with high promiscuity, for example. It's an endless exhausting game of whack a mole when you can't close borders and the population doesn't comply, and it eventually gets overwhelmed. America has a class and group stratified, personal freedom and "do what I want when I want" society that is antithetical to population compliance with contact tracing. It's also highly mobile at all distances, far more than other countries.

Europe's mistake was to rely on masks rather than keep up contact tracing. If masks didn't exist they would have pushed way harder on contact tracing and Europe would be fine right now, imo. They had a low enough infection rate for solid contact tracing to be effective.

If you take out (4), which I think is not possible in the US, you're left with (3) as the only other viable solution - burn through. Texas and Florida did that and they survived it just fine. It's really just about variably putting your finger on the throttle to control R:

- Contact tracing as well as you can including campaigns to get compliance. Mobile contact tracing teams to hit hotspots early and bring them back under control
- Encouraging of social bubbles
- A "stay home if you're sick!" campaign
- A "masks don't work, distancing does!" campaign to overcome the extremely negative false sense of security masks create

I think those are the most effective interventions. I'd push N95 masks for the vulnerable (get enough for the state and provide them free) and let everyone else do what they want.

Once you decide burn through then you just got to let people get sick. Of course the best time to do that by far was the summer.

What would you do, Shuffle? New York was ravaged by corona (people knew how serious it was) but still only had 35% compliance with contact tracing efforts. Masks appear not to help much if at all. Now what?

And yes the Democrats stoking riots and rebelling and telling police to stand down and let it fester has been crazy. They've unleashed a monster right into a winter pandemic requiring compliance and reasonableness.

What is this Florida did fine stuff? They're at like 800 dpm and counting

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A3003 met Tapatalk

It is so satisfying to review the data you cite, knowing that you’re either lying, lazy, stupid or (vastly more likely) a combination of the three.

Your UofM Study Concludes:

I would tell you to stop, but you seem addicted to being wrong. And frankly I enjoy reveling in your child-like enthusiasm (and understanding).

One more time for the Trump voters in the back:

we support the wearing of face coverings by the public when mandated and when in close contact with people whose infection status they don't know.

-Tooth’s anti-mask experts

You do have a uniquely irritating and confrontational manner that is tailor-made for the Internets. This thread would be better if fewer people were more concerned about taking shots at one another than they are about getting the right analysis.