My friend wanted to buy bitcoin monday, he said he wanted it to go down $100 more dollars to like $5500 im like you should just buy some now. LOL. Good thing I have been hoddling my BTC for a few years. I bought 3000 coins at $1 each. Almost lost them. jk. I wish I could have gotten in at ground zero and had the patience not to sell.

This thread is AIDS. What happened to 2+2? There used to be smart people here.

Please do not take any advice from this person. He is most likely trolling at this point.

Yesterday he proved his total lack of technical knowledge by saying it was "quite unlikely" that nobody had access to the funds in the address: 1111111111111111111114oLvT2

Today he has somehow figured out that there are huge flaws in segwit and multisig addresses.

This

There is a risk that there is a security flaw in multisig or segwit, but that risk is infinitesimal, as that would have been exploited by now, especially for multisig, which has been around for many years.

As for people stopping to use it, effectively making it anyone-can-spend, that will never happen unless a very serious bug is discovered, which again, won't happen.

I have read the source code, what's your point? So have a lot of other people. No one has found any security flaws in either segwit or multisig. If you know something that no one else does, then you should make a responsible reporting on it, so that it can be fixed. You don't though, because you have no technical understanding of Bitcoin.

Yah. Like the people who figured out what ASICBOOST did, right? Oh wait, they were completely selfish with the information and used it for their own personal gain

And you have no social understanding of it

Just because someone else is a prick doesn't mean you have to be. And how has that personal gain worked out for them?

Might or might not be true, but you're the one giving out technical advise, or making flawed arguments based on technical misunderstanding.

They're multi millionaires, enjoying their rich life. Why would they discuss bitcoin? They got in early for size, held, sold recently, and are rich off it. What's left in this thread are the losers who bought in too late or sold too early or too many times, who didn't have much money to invest to begin with and thus didn't make much, and the hordes of end-of-ponzi fish who come in when a ponzi reaches widespread media coverage.

Why would people who got in early sell now?

Because the thesis that takes it to say $20 billion (digital coin for illegal activity demand for which is in the billions of dollars), is far far stronger than the thesis required now for large return (bitcoin will become a global currency on par with fiat).

Because it's in a speculation huge bubble and the price is far far above its organic growth and the illegal/shady economy which sustains a base.

Because transaction fees and limits are going to choke it as it goes higher.

Because it's reached the order of magnitude of its competence/viaibility (tradeoff for avoiding DOS attacks vs number of transactions possible)

Because it's recently, rapidly, become an enormous amount of wealth, going from 5 or 6 figure to 7 or 8 figures for early holders.

Lots of reasons why people who bought early would sell now or have sold recently.

Lol nope. We are obviously not selling now or anytime soon.

I love how you avoided the question "at what price do you change your tune?". I ask it again. 100k? It's coming faster than most expected

Yeah, I don't buy it. I haven't heard of one early buyer selling off big right now anywhere. If the early buyers didn't sell off at 4k-5k, they're not selling off now.

I would further argue that a lot of early buyers that haven't sold until now are believers of the technology whom won't sell until much higher prices.

You're making all these conjectures of what early buyers are doing without providing any single evidence.

Whats price got to do with anything? A ponzi is a ponzi. People get incredibly rich from ponzi's whilst a vast majority will lose out.

Agreed, you have the same fud in this thread. You cannot convince someone who refuses to acknowledge properly written and cited academic papers that their fears are not relevant or worthy of consideration.

All that can be done is to side with the experts and show that their non-expert view is in complete contrast to the experts, and hope eventually enough people that understand how science and academics works can pervade the dialogue to keep it grounded.

You have people in this thread, who aren't experts, saying bitcoin is insecure at all levels, and you have all of the top cyber security experts in the world saying it is.

Toothsayer either bought in early and is trolling or he missed the boat and is mad.

When you describe something, you should be very careful with the accuracy of your description. Exaggerations and mislabeling removes from clarity.

A ponzi is a scheme where investors are paid dividends from the capital collected from older investors. It collapses when incoming capital dries up and no future dividends can be paid or when the organization handling the ponzi exit scams.

Bitcoin does not fit that description.

A pyramid scheme is a recruitment model where participants are promised dividends from enrolling new participants.

Bitcoin also does not fit that description.

Continue striking of what Bitcoin isn't and you'll eventually arrive what at Bitcoin is, without any flourishes and exaggerations.

Tooth, knowing it's a bubble, might bitcoin still be highly +EV to hold over the next day/week/month/3 months at least? I don't see anything on the immediate horizon to pop it. China banning ICOs and exchanges didn't do it, and anything bigger in terms of regulation from say the US government would have to be at least a few months away?

comma,
Oh for sure. I'm all for riding bubbles up, and CME was very very bullish as I said 20% ago. Just don't buy the bull**** that people are spewing that this is guaranteed to be as big as fiat or that it has no flaws or risks. You always get true believer clowns like that in big bubbles, they end up crying on the toilet, full of regret. Just know that you're taking a risky bet on a ponzi and that the bull**** being spewed here by people that are balls deep in this isn't real, or rational, or anything other than madlibs.

Just want people to keep that in mind, that's all.

I admire your attempt add actual financial truth to this discussion. Even a high school economics student should understand those terms better than the posters on this forum. But it doesn't fit into wild mudslinging and potshot discussion tactics of the anti-bitcoin crowd. Losing out on an easy money opportunity can people irrational and desperate.

There isn't really a word for "something of little value in a speculation bubble, where earlier buyers get rich off idiot bagholders, while dishonestly pumping it for their own gain". Ponzi is used because it's the same result practically and morally. It's perfectly apt, in fact it's the best word to describe bitcoin.

Is bitcoin a ponzi scheme or an unintentional ponzi?

In other words is Satoshi Nakamoto Bernie Madoff?

Pump and dump.

A ponzi is something without real infrastructure. A ponzi has a lot of risk and the guys at the top can generally close up shop and run with investors money.

Bitcoin is actually the opposite of that. You can not steal it, or copy it. That is what Bitcoin is, thats its specialty.

As the price of Bitcoin goes up it actually gets taken more seriously and is more stable. This will attract more big money investors.

You may not ever see the 10k + percent returns like you could have in 2010 but its actually a smarter investment now. People will always sell, but the Demand of Bitcoin is in a bull market right now.

China FUD a few months ago is already priced in right now. That is a great thing actually. Because what could be worse than the biggest country banning it? Bitcoin is seemingly unaffected right now.

This is an interesting quote from an interview with a Goldman Sachs CEO,

Once upon a time, a coin was worth $5 if it had $5 worth of gold in it,Maybe in the new world, something gets backed by consensus.”

It makes sense then to have a currency that is backed purely by an agreement of its price - consensus. Bitcoin is in a unique position as its underlying technology and its position in the market makes it the perfect consensus-backed currency.

BTW this interview with Sachs he made a change to $10,000 by years end, This was after Bitcoin already surpassing his $7500 by year end prediction. LOL.