They're gonna delay to answer as much as possible cause one: they don't wanna lie, two: they don't want all the regs to leave yet.

NL50

1 MONTH OLD BE ACCOUNT ON PP:


3-4 YEARS WINNER ON BWIN: (ACCOUNT WASN'T USED AFTER MERGE)


************************************************** **************

NL100

1 MONTH OLD BE ACCOUNT ON PP:


3-4 YEARS WINNER ON BWIN: (ACCOUNT WASN'T USED AFTER MERGE)

Gathered data look really badly for Party.bwin:

What we know for sure that suddenly after the last update the amount of recreational players dropped significantly. Pokerscout also noticed it (I mean there is like 20%+ drop in traffic that happened all of a sudden, looks shaddy).
People noticed acrosss various forums sites that the number of tables differes between account which shouldn't be the case and also the missed tables are avaliable on losing/never used accounts. The missed tables seem to be way more fishy overall.
Seriously PArty_rep WTF is going on???

This is what I've emphasized months ago, and I feel people aren't taking this statement serious enough. And for all of those speculating things at the lower limits 10-25-50NL etc etc. are just being silly. The rake to cash out ratios at those limits are already very good, and the fish who are net depositers don't deposit a lot at those limits (except for the odd whale who loses 100K at 100NL etc.) It is more about the higher limits 400-600, and especially 1000NL. Predatory behavior at these limits are far worse, net depositing players have a lot of funds, and the rake to cash out ratio is already bad as it is, even if you are just a marginal winner.

For all poker players who rely on poker as their sole income, these statements need to be of concern. It is very vague and ambiguous what they mean, but clearly they do not like players who withdraw large sums from the player pool.

Poker Ecology = Net Deposits - Rake - Cash outs
Party Poker has 3 ways to improve their business:
1) Increase Net Deposits
2) Reduce Net Cash outs
3) Increase Net Deposit conversions to Rake rather than to Net Cash outs

Utilizing this model it is very clear which players poker sites favor:
1) Large Net Depositers
2) High raking players with low cash outs (aka RakeBack pros/breakeven players)

They would least favor large net cash out players (players who have very high win rates, and less rake paid)

To be fair we as players have to take some responsibility for what's going on.

I haven't played at Party recently but I did play at Ongame and had accounts on both my rakeback skin AND on bwin so that I could bumhunt the players on the bwin exclusive tables.

Bumhunting has gotten ridiculous over ALL sites and networks and if the sites don't take action then poker will just get tougher until a lot of us have to stop playing the game as it isn't profitable any more. There is no Moneymaker type boom lurking around the corner.

We all bum hunt to a certain extent sure. But some players have taken it to a whole new level.

5 players sitting out at a new table waiting for a fish to join for them to snap sit in and play the fish.

Players sitting out the minute the fish goes for a piss/cigarette/insert here and when he comes back you all sit in again.

Seating scripts where no matter what table the fish goes to he is getting followed even if he doesn't want to play you.

It was always going to come to something like this. The sites have to take action to stop this behavior. I'm going to see the same happening on the euro networks I play at too I'm sure of it because the same behavior occurs there too.

You can't blame party solely for this. The players have to shoulder some of the blame.

That being said Party looks like they have been very lax with addressing these problems before it got to this stage. They could easily have banned the worst offenders from the site after a warning yet they chose not to. That is inexcusable imo.

It will be interesting to see what happens over the coming weeks.

MMD - I can't agree with you more with literally everything you said. The bumhunting/predatory behavior is absolutely ridiculous and needs to be taken action against. But as you said, Party Poker seems very lax at addressing these problems, and many of the worst offenders still are continuing at this date. It really sounds hypocritical for them to be posting statements saying they care about the ecology than turn a blind eye to these issues. And as I said their statements are very ambiguous, it really makes you wonder what they really mean, and how they plan on improving the ecology.

Received an email from Tina and after speaking to management they will honor the bonus points for the month of February. Glad they did the right thing with this matter.

For those of you referring to the term "rank" and not being allowed to purposely drop in rank, I think that was introduced when they opened PartyGammon.

what are these bonus points? are they for poker?

cliffnotes on party rigging the tables in the lobby?

looks more like a server bug than anything, sometimes the extra tables show up sometimes not(on same account)
sometimes i can get on one a table, have it disappear from lobby, and PARTY support cant even find the table, even though we are 6 people playing.

for the conspiracy guys: i did notice that the tables that have disappeared from lobby while iam playing have usually been extra fishy, might be a coincidence.

What a coincidence that the tables disappearing are usually the tables with whales on it.

party updates its software and created a bug that prevents player x from seeing table y

10ppl with under 100 posts come posting "proof" that this means party is segragating player pools because there is a backgammong related point in party's t&c since 5 years ago

cliffs of cliffs: imo there is a bug, no conspiracy here.

PLO traffic has not changed much imo... fwiw when ipoker split their network into two player pools they shared the PLO games because of the lower liquidity.

and what if the 3rd player logs into a partypoker account?

at best it means there are bwin only tables. many networks have skins that have skin only tables. not that i agree that's a good choice..

your evidence could also mean that party had an update and ****ed it up

you guys are jumping into ******ed conclusions.

Lessu my friend and I had the exact same tables missing on partypoker that our mutual fish friend could see. Those tables were fantastic too. It could still be a bug but I wouldn't completely disregard at this point. Support told my friend they were going to make an official statement tomorrow.

Yes I had this happen too. If you check my post a few days ago

We are 3 winnings regs on party and I was playing at a table that the other 2 couldn't see. And yes that table was very juicy.

I have a decent winrate so the theory that only recreational players could see this table is false

Well that makes me feel a lot better. I wish support wasn't being so weird about it and my god that is a pretty huge bug to have.

All these investigations and screen shots. You guys realize anybody can check the traffic without logging in to any client any time by going on the instant play web browser.

I'm with Lessu on this, they're having some bugs. I was having problems with seeing tables in the lobby from the moment I installed the client last month. Party rep responded with some crap about it being an issue only for play money people (I hadn't made my first deposit yet, but continued to have issues after depositing). He/she hasn't responded to all this chatter most likely because they still haven't worked out the bug and don't want to admit such a huge fail publicly at least until they can appear competent with a solution.....IMO.

For what it's worth I was checking the instant play web browser regularly this past 4-5 days because I was sure I was having issues again, but the # of tables matched up every time. So my client has been working ok, but that doesn't mean other people haven't been having problems, hence the low traffic. Fish are also a lot more likely to give up and do something else (or drop the site entirely) than a full time grinder that needs to eat.

How does Party consistently fail over and over again? So many bugs, it's pathetic.

If it's not a bug and intentional, then that's disgusting/they've lost my business.

yes, i think it is a bug. Player traffic is about the same as it was previous. We had a slight influx the last 3 weeks prior, probably because party targeted fish with reload bonuses, and they have now blown through them and quit for a bit. Relax and wait and see.

more tables appear after login

Yea, there is some bug probably, happened to me a few months ago, after the bwin merge anyway, some dude could only see like 10 tables of nl 100 and i could see all 50 tables.

Talked to support and they said it`s very weird, they`ll investigate it bla bla.

which site?

post screenshots

shows same amount of tables for me pre and post log-in on party

feel like at least some of the low posting accounts got banned from party lately or something, provoking people for no reason. some posts so ridic

Lessu I don't know about the login log out isue however we have the same discusion on pokerstrategy forum where it got confirmed by many respected and well known players. The screenshots also have been posted here e.g. by alchemik82 who for some reason don't want to post from his normal 2+2 account but whatever (he play like 8 years as a pro and is a respected member of polish community). Same people on different accounts or friend playing the same stakes see the difference. What scares people is that usually the tables they don't see are significantly more fishy. So it is like you see 30% less tables but like 60-70% less recreational players. We can easily spot it because many people use TST when it is really easy visible that there is the huge differences in the amount of recreationa players.

If it is random bug why the results aren't random????

I might be unknown here but on pokerstrategy I am a really well known player. We all see that there is something really wrong and I don't care what Party write in e-mails cause I know what I see and thats is the problem. There is somethin really wrong going on and I demand answers. If it si a bug they should fix it ASAP and apologize if not I want clear statement so I will be able to adjust and move on.