RC rakeback is fixed at 65% since inception, inclusive of FB, but excluding welcome bonus, FDB, 500K RC giveaway

this makes it even worse

0.75rake - rake = -10bb/10 => rake = 40bb/100

so you are saying the rake after fish buffet (isn't that dependent on your level too?) is around 10bb which makes the rake before any cashback or promotions around 25bb/100 ?

what is STP? is it some rakeback in addition to fish buffet?
why are we also including promotions in the calculations ? isnt that just effective when you create your account for a short period ?

the rake of 5% is still accurate though? it translates to the 25bb/100?

Yes, the effective rake is -10bb/100 nl50 Rush&CASH. It is depending on many things, from your playstyle, your FB level, how much you're getting from the STP, etc. I'm telling you what I see in my data (I have played around 10k hands in 1 week and that is so far the data I have for now)


It is the cashback they are giving back at RUSH&CASH, it's additional to BF.




the Rake at RUSH&CASH is 6.25% and they're raking all the pots, preflop pots and STP pots included.

so if one is still spending 10bb/100 hands even after FB and STP (at rush n cash) it seems pretty hard to make any money on n8. isn't the expected win rate for a good player (even a pro) around 10bb/100? are the games beatable at a higher rate?

somebody posted that "they don't want winning players on the site" . why is that the case? and is it still advisable to join the site despite this and the high rake ?

Sites make money from deposits and regs don't deposit that much. No wonder there are so many streamers promoting the site. You need some extra revenue to beat the 10bb post rakeback rake. Isn't the site filled with (russian) grinders these days?

Does anyone know effective rake in bb/100 on 50NL regular tables?

yes makes sense life is made tough on regulars so they have to deposit like everybody else.
they seem to also have ecology terms:
https://www.ggnetwork.com/security-a...logy-agreement

whereas if you are grinding out you might be banned as your play aligns with bumhunting ? Is that commonplace on n8? that would be next level and make the site really tough.

First of all, it did affect me. I was pretty much forced to leave Switzerland, if I wanted to continue playing online poker.

Second, I was probably among the poker players who did the most against the Swiss gambling bill, just because it's the right thing to do (I already moved out).

Third, I believe poker players have shown to be extremely gullible when it comes to scams. Mike Postle just went undetected for over a year, I'm not surprised I'm one of the only people who think N8/GG is shady.

Players on GG/N8 are not equal. Despite banning some winning players, the enforcement of their TOS regarding using a HUD on other sites simultaneously is a complete joke, as it's not used for some streamers/other players. There is simply no transparency and most people would never think about it.

I'd literally got my account blocked for a stars HUD (ban was revoked later), then go on twitch and see 10 streamers using a HUD on stars too. This is why I started thinking about the site more critically.

Great 1st post. Seems like you're onto something.

Your math is WAY off. Rake is about 30% more than stars in normal pots before rakeback. So if you have 6bb/100 on stars you should pay around 8bb/100 here before rakeback. Loose player pool increases both rake and win rate. If you call a ton outside BB you easily can get to around 12.5bb/100 rake so maybe you have made an error doubling rake in your calculations? Playing loose you'd pay 10bb+/100 on stars too.

Preflop rake is actually not that big of a deal when they only rake 3bets. It increases rake by less than 15%. Think 6bb/100 to 6.5bb/100. Cash drops are raked and will obviously increase rake but it should not be treated as same stake and does not reduce profitability.

If rake in normal pots are 1.4x stars but you get 0.6 rakeback then effective rake is 0.4*1.4=0.56. Cash drop rake will obviously be huge compared to normal pots because it's several times higher stakes.

P.S. I'm not too excited about the game myself as the pool was really reg heavy. Compared to stars it looks like worse regs but less recs. Rake is definitely lower and pool do botch cash drops strategy overall.

I've played way more than 10k hands of Rush&Cash and difference between my Cashier (actual winnings) and PokerCraft (winnings+rake) is more than 12bb/100. And this is including rakeback from cash drops.

It makes no sense that rake in rush and cash when excluding rakeback from cash drop and fish party is 25bb/100. You can simulate preflop rake with monker solver and the difference with and without when not raking "uncalled bets" is very subtle. If everyone played that strategy you'd en up paying 6bb to 7 bb/100 before rakeback with GG rake but because weaker pools has a tendency to see too many flops the real rake is higher. The increase in win rate from this should be greater than rake so it's actually a good thing overall for good players. I highly doubt the rake is 4x higher than sims indicate. PokerCraft definitely miss hands at times and there are days of play missing for me. Maybe that's what's causing this very high rake estimate?

25bb/100 rake really doesn't make sense but what can I be missing? Cash drops impacts it that much?

You didn't take into account that rake is essentially uncapped at microstakes and is capped at $10 for 200nl, compared to $4(?) on stars

Rake difference between micros and 100nl is usually exaggerated. The difference mainly comes from loose calls (i.e. bad play) and not the game structure itself. 200nl it starts dropping a bit as rake cap comes into effect more often but still not huge difference. 2knl and micros is huge difference but 200nl and micros isn't.

1st post doesn't mean i'm not a successful poker player... And unfortunately limited to playing on GG due the games i need not running on any other site at any real frequency.

And yes, GG network is "shady"... I mean ofc it is. But why are you making this into your personal vendetta? Why aren't you fighting the other 100s of shady sites as well?

It's everyone's personal choice if they want to play at a site or not. You should never stand between that.

I haven't said that you're not successful. Your first post on 2+2 is questionning my good intentions towards the poker industry, I was a bit sarcastic pointing that out.

This is not a personal vendetta against GG, I have critisized a lot of other sites, that (like GG poker btw) could have potentially sponsored me, if I had continued streaming regularly.

I think that the success of GG poker is way more dangerous than people might think for the longevity of online poker. In short terms, people see the action, longterm a site without ethical behavior towards winning players will turn poker into something else. (Pokerstars also crossed the line with SN/SNE, but at least today they got clear &enforcable TOS, unlike GG)

Sponsored a player moaning to 10 people watching badbeats and bad players?

DuFisch, mission accomplished?



Thank you for your good work, sir!

Terror threats? He threatened to nuke them? He really went for it.

https://gyazo.com/3a06f7c34845995e87997794d1697b75

I wanted to ask so if ggpoker not send me a same letter as natural8 did.
So i can play from forbidden country in ggpoker or not? i know they are same network

From wat i understand different skins allow different countries. The skins with stronger regulation are alot tighter than the ones who use curacao or something like this. Best is if you write the skins directly and explain your situation imo.

Only bc natural8 banned some territories doesnt mean they arent possibly available via another skin

I messaged support for PokerOK about restrictions in Colombia. Got this confusing answer. The last sentence is especially wtf. Are they saying that the software itself gets around local restrictions by changing its IP address?

LOL, I think they encouraged you to VPN to play their games