I agree that this is the mindset of most poker players. If you can do what you need to do playing 30 hours a week, and you're happy, good for you.

Most people can't pull that off, and I have to say that with poker, just like any other occupation, you usually get out of it what you put into it.

If you're a high school teacher with a bachelors degree and you go on to get a masters, that's usually an automatic pay bump.

If you work in a factory and jump on all of the non-mandatory overtime, that's a big pay bump.

If you work at McDonald's slinging fries, do a great job, have a great attitude, never miss work, and are never late, you're probably going to get promoted.

Poker is no different. One of Andrew Robl's friends said that he is "fanatical about studying the math." When someone interviews Phil Ivey and asks about his talent or ability, he almost always mentions how hard he works at it. Vanessa Rousso says that she "fell in love with game theory" at Duke, and she certainly has a strong work ethic--she was the first (only?) person to graduate from Duke (economics degree) in 2 1/2 years.

Most of us will never be across the table from Phil Ivey or Vanessa Rousso. But as some have noted, in this thread and many others, in some places, even in the United States, 40K per year is real money.

In the city in which I live, which is less than 10 miles from Lake Michigan, there are still a lot of vacant houses, and you can buy a three-bedroom house with a full basement, in good condition, for about $25K.

There was a young lady in my National Guard unit who grew up in rural Kentucky. She told me that there were four career options for girls: work in the mines, work in the diner, join the military, or become a prostitute.

She chose the military. For a smart person (95th percentile IQ, I saw her file) in a situation like that, online poker would most definitely be a reasonable option (assuming the availability of a broadband connection.)

We can't all be Phil Ivey or Vanessa Rousso. But those of us who are willing to put in 50 or more hours a week playing, studying and growing a bankroll could live very comfortably in a situation like mine, especially (as is the case for me) when the other options aren't great.

In the past I had many jobs where I worked 50 or more hours a week (usually because I jumped on any available overtime hours.) It just made sense to me to transfer that work ethic to poker.*

For most of you, if you think you're going to get rich sitting in front of a computer in your underwear playing poker 20 hours a week, think again. You might you try to move up to where you can make some real money, and in the first game at your new level, You have a guy on your left who studies 20 hours a week.

Welcome to the big leagues son.

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*For the last three months I've been aiming for 100 hours a month, and I put in 91 hours last month. I am in a family rotation to spend time with a 91-year-old relative, who is in the early stages of Alzheimers, while we make a decision about what (and when) the next step is for her. Normally my wife wouldn't want me to cut my work hours like that like that--but the relative is her mother.

The best and worst thing about being a poker player is that you can become Available Guy, because you don't have a "regular job" where you have to be there during certain hours.

^ that post makes it seem like poker players are lazy, not motivated etc. My real point was poker is mentally draining, stressful, filled with anxiety. Having a full time job THEN PLAYING 20 HOURS ONTOP OF THAT IT ROUGH. Believe me it will wear you down fast. Poker players are usually a different breed, not lazy but find it hard to do the 9-5 with strict structure. It reminds me of the saying if you worked as hard as you do trying not to work you'd be rich. Many poker players put in long hours and work hard, but its on their schedule and terms which makes it seem easier

If this is true for you, then you're doing it wrong.

link to $25k house?

I don't doubt it, but there's a reason why there's a lot of $25K houses in good condition which are vacant.

25k house are probably in the hood.

Lol at 25k house being realistic. When I moved from north jersey to south jersey I was thrilled when I saw the size house you can get for under 300k. But again I guess this falls under what you concider a living. If I had to live In a 1200 square foot house for the rest of my life I wouldn't be happy.

Edit: just re read your post and you are referring to online poker where you can live anywhere. If we're taking live poker New Jersey and California are the most expensive places to live. Vegas is def the cheapest

Sure, extra $20k is nice. I'm not denying I wouldn't be happier with 20k more/yr from poker than not having it. Neither reaches the end goal of having more freedom. If anything, it makes me a slave more. I guess it would help me pay off debts faster, but I'd still have to work the same at a salaried job. Unless, again, you were to go part-time after awhile at your job, but then that's really pointless also. Whichever way people are the most happy with their time, they should do it. I get way more excited to play and think I can get back into full time pokers (and working harder than before) since I have a salaried job, but I don't know. Having a job makes me want to blow my brains out, and poker probably does after grinding day in and out for awhile (maybe if PS was huge in USA again)...poker provides freedom but just leads to nowhere almost for anyone with family in the US, or going to start one.

Grass always seems greener on the other side

Taxes tho

Doubt you have played professionally with this comment

I live in a neighborhood with a lot of rentals, so you never know what you're going to get for neighbors. I've had great neighbors on both sides, and I've had next-door neighbors who get drunk and argue with other drunk neighbors, loudly, at midnight. My three boys were among the very few children on my block who actually graduated from high school.

That said, I've lived here more than 10 years, and no one on my block or immediate vicinity has been shot, or robbed*, or assaulted, as far as I know, other than one drunken brawl a few years ago. I've never seen anyone with a gun, and there are no drug dealers on the corner. I raised my children here, and I never felt that they weren't safe.

We might be moving later this year, but for the price we paid to live here, the neighborhood nuisances have been a fair trade-off.

EDIT: Actually, my boys were excited when they found out where we were going to live, because "Freddie Kruger's grave will be by our house!" We drove over there, my sons took me to a nearby cemetery, and sure enough, there was the headstone: Frederick J. Kruger.

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*After I typed the above, I realized that I forgot about a rather famous porn robbery on my block:

http://muskegon.wzzm13.com/news/news...th-7500-stolen

I wouldn't have made that comment if I didn't play professionally.

....and you don't find it at times mentally draining or stressful? Pretty surprising

I think poker players who are able to make a living 40-50kish a year are lucky people. The economy sucks, it isn't getting any better, there will be more massive layoffs sooner or later. Lots of qualified smart people can't find permanent jobs or even part time jobs.

If the poker boom happened in the 80's or early 90's I think people who would have chosen to play poker for 40-50k (in today's dollars) a year would have been nuts. Today? Not so much.

Most people don't do it right. That's why I'm going on year 12. I certainly didn't like my 5 month long break-even/downswing, it was a major mind****, but I wasn't stressed about it.

florida is dirt cheap as well

this thread is like a support group for sh*tty poker players...thanks for sharing :P

I would venture to say that the vast majority of players, even those on this site, that even play semi-professionally or halfway decent RECREATIONAL hours are in his camp, not yours. Few happy souls at the tables. Plenty of stressed out ones, though.

As far as a $25k house, I could probably get like, one square on the sidewalk in front of a house in my area for that much.

A major mind**** is by definition, stressfull

Props to you if you truely pull this off/not calling you a liar. But seems unusual

A 25k house can easily be bought in Milwaukee. Minutes from Lake Michigan. Just a ****ty neighborhood, that's all. I prefer condos.

I'm sure that you're right, but I can't understand it.

I've had all kind of jobs. I worked in factory offices, and ran machines on a factory floor. I worked with addicts in a homeless shelter. I've worked in accounting, purchasing, and production control, and at a hotel front desk. I was a temp for Labor Ready. I spent 23 years in the National Guard, where I enlisted into the infantry but retired from an army band.

I've had too many jobs to count, but of all of them, I only liked one better than poker. I like being in control of my life and my hours. If I want to work a ton of hours, no one has to approve my overtime. I love the intellectual combat of the game. I enjoy all the characters I meet when I play live.

I'm very happy with my job, and I have no plans to stop playing when I'm "old enough" to retire. Why should I? Mike Sexton is still final-tabling WPT tournaments in his 60s (as a part-time player!), and Doyle Brunson won a WSOP bracelet at 73.

I'm only 57. I still have a lot to learn about poker, and a lot of time to learn it. It would be fun to make it on TV sometime so that my grandchildren could watch, even it's if only the Heartland Poker Tour.

Nothing I said disagrees with any of that.

I could PM you a pic along with one sentence that would make you understand immediately why it wasn't stressful.

Dude. No offense, but you've said before that your wife is paying all the bills until you build a roll suitable for grinding livable wages. That's great and everything, but you can't really compare yourself to someone with no outs except for his poker winrate.