Just read Ansky's post and gotta say great post sir. This really clears alot up and its great you shared your story with us NVGers haha.

so i assume you already know how to beat 5KNL

Lol such foolishness.

WTF happened in september 2008???

I understand all the logic and analytical thinking that goes into poker. Can I beat 5k no limit? I can beat $500-$1000NL as long as at least one of the players at the table is not very smart and a total expert at poker and is exploitable. I cant beat 1-2NL if the players at my table are Durrr, Ivey,OMG,Trex,CTS etc. I think Im break even in that game and everyone else is too. No Joke. Maybe one of us has better guessing skills or is psychic. This is just a simple card game created by human beings. This world is ********. Think about it.

alot of coaches results and coaching rates are really suss but what we all have to remember is that when they started making vids ect,prob 90% of people who would of given them action hu and played back 6 max would have stopped doing so.

professional poker player means expectation of being able to support oneself at it, even if that expectation is not realized.

I dunno about last year, but I've seen a post from CTS showing he's up 900k this year (and 2 mil under ev).

Also blackwinterday, I'm guessing they would pay leatherass to multitable them HU 25/50. LA makes his money by mass-tabling msnl opponents who are obviously not going to be as tough as most of the top HSNL players. His skill set is in owning 'mediocre' players across multiple tables, not beating an excellent HU player. AFAIK he doesn't even play HU. I don't really see how your post was relevant, if you want to learn how to do what LA does get him as a coach, if you want to learn how to beat tough players HU then hire someone else.

Whats the saying, those who can't do teach. The fact is there are quite a few coaches and books that are good for the game because they give bad advice or have students who can't implement the tactics they are being taught. If these students are dumb enough to pay the bad coaches, how is that any different than taking their money at the tables? I just hope the these coaches put that money back into the poker economy.

That being said, ptr has been around for what a little over a year? These guys might have beat softer games to build their rolls, but they still had the ability to fade 6 figure downswings, what % of the population does that put them in? Ansky made a good point about selling action as well, ptr clearly doesn't tell the whole story of a player's profit.

That's cool buddy but I'm not really sure why you are bothering with all this. Who the **** cares if NVG thinks you're a losing player?

When you're a coach who's paid a lot, what NVG (and more generally the poker community) thinks of you is very important. If they all think you're a huge loser because of inaccurate data, it would be smart to correct that.

Also, when you're a player who's trying to become more famous to get more opportunities at juicy live tv games and more sponsorship opportunities, what NVG and the poker community thinks of you is important.

You need a certain amount of skill and knowledge to be able to determine who is teaching concepts that make sense. The vast, vast majority of people do not have that skill, or they would be learning and executing it and making lots and lots of money.

Don't be fooled into thinking someone is good because they are a coach on CR/DC/you've seen them in the big game or on TV. Much of that is about connections and who is "hot" at that particular time and not based completely on skill.

It appears we agree.

Do you really have to ask?

If you really can't figure out it yourself:

A ****ing + sir

Thats a great post by ansky. Thats what I meant earlier in this thread, until people actually comment on the ptr results we cant know. Well, I for one has only heard people saying their ptr results are off and my results are off aswell, and now ansky says it. So Im just not gonna trust ptr. I dont know why it has such a relevance in the poker community since everyone at the same time know the results is off. I think we should forget about them completely.

large samples often mean something, even if groups of hands are missed in a random fashion.

I was not aware of all the situations you give. Thank you for the post.

It isn't a random fashion, it's all the all in hands (where it's ran twice).

ptr is pretty accurate at ssnl and msnl.
close to %90 imo.

I think ptr is mostly accurate for non run it twice hands on ftp, and all stars hands. For my UB it is extremely off, I wonder if it is because of the same problem as I used to have with PT/HEM where UB hh's would not import the last hand played at a table (which is obviously extremely likely to be a huge pot compared to the other hands).

I use PTR when I see someone new at my tables. I take it with a grain of a salt, but it's just another little bit of information to add on to everything else I see. I think PTR obviously has done some good for the poker community, their motivation obviously might not be benevolence, but it doesn't really matter does it?

it doesnt

It doesn't really matter if they miss the second half of all run it twice hands.

It would be nice if PTR would just show us EV instead of real $, anyways.

PTR's been missing every single hand from my last five days at the plo tables.
Shows my last sesh as being on the 14th, even though I put in 5k hands since then...

Until that point however, it had been 100% accurate for 5-6 months.
Anyway, think it's usually accurate enough to get an idea of who's a huge donk and vice versa.

Tbh, my feeling has always been that if you can't figure out where your opponent lies in terms of skill level after a couple of showdowns, you're going to need more than PTR to make money...