just allow everything and problem solved

I'm not quite sure I understand the outrage here. Does anyone have a legitimate reason to be against this software being allowed?

Oh and lol at everyone saying huds should be banned.

There is a bit of truth to this. What people itt should ask themselves is would I be able to win at poker if there were 0 software aids? If you feel that you could win then you should unite and ask Stars to ban all of them.

The real sham is Pstars though... just look at Baard's post. He says that Stars is ok with this software and if people think that it violates the TOS of the site well then the obvious solution is to merely change the TOS. Problem solved.

Now may be the time to ban all 3rd party software. Build a full featured hud into the poker client & do your best to stop data mining & seat scripting.

We dont exactly know what is capable of doing?
Nuff reason

Whatever the new rules, if any, you need a very clear line. imo that line should be "no real time information provided".

The decisions you make here are crucial to the survival of recreational online poker as something which reflects the live game as a competition of human real-time game skills (as opposed to programming ingenuity), so please take great care.

I read a different message, which explained that the software doesn't violate the current T&C, however (as technology and techniques advance, often not predictable ahead of time) they are considering whether their T&C need updating to account for the evolving environment.

Sounds good to me, not sure why you have an issue with this,

Your flawed assumption here is that replication of live poker is desirable. Online poker is better for a reason. I agree that a line needs to be drawn, but as I said above, I believe that line should be real time advice/automated decision-making.

Above are some random thoughts from Lee Jones on the Claudico match vs Doug Polk and crew. Pretty scary to know that management is rooting for the bots.

Imagine the decline in business when rumors fly that you cant win at Pokerstars because they allow AI bots that are proven to beat the best in the world are infesting the streets. Naymar Jr. and fat Ronaldo aren't going to be able to save you if the public thinks they are playing robots.

I dont like gui who shoved nash push/fold chart or stox ev creator but its natural how things work these days robots/computers takes away jobs in lot arejas off life.

Looks like Backgammon days for online poker is coming sooner or later. The allways will be LIVE poker.

In other hand if you can manipulate people who dont interpret corectlyy hud you also can manipulate vs bot and it unability reconize paterns like AI vs Brain chalenge shown.

Nope, will be solved
You just play online with this software and exercise your memory

Do you understand how big a GTO solution would be? There is no way a human brain can remember it all.

Short stacked maybe (today we have push fold carts). But deeper my gues will be more like chess were people memorise first ~20 gametree branches... If its more like 8x8 chekers then games should have deeper stacks say 500bb or more cards (omaha) to make memorise strategies harder. Example 100 squares chekers.

Executing and remembering exact mixed strategies on ech board in live will be chalenge and will require alot hard work.

Of course its prediction.

Allso like there is irational player who plays roulete there will be who gamble poker.

People wouldn't need to remember the entire tree. Remembering
patterns etc would likely make players so good that only the rake-collectors would win.

Personally I would prefer a game where nobody used in-game tools (even if all the players had them). I don't know the reason that you believe huds etc make online better than live. I don't use any huds/tools and enjoy the online game a lot. Ultimately this comes down to whether you prefer high volume data crunching or playing poker.

I respect your view but I take a different one. Apart from anything else, I think your suggestion doesn't provide sufficient clarity. The point at which data and information becomes "advice" is somewhat blurred imo and it is that lack of clarity in the stars rules which leads to the continuous pushing of the boundary.

imo HUDs etc are a pathway which leads only to bad things like a market place in player stats/histories, "advice" being provided real time, unfair advantages, excessive exploitation of casual players, adverse publicity, botting and, ultimately, hastening the end of poker as we know it.

the solution would be like in wargames if you're all just shuffling chips between each other and losing to rake

It really depends on what this software actually does.

Even if it's "banned", if the software is a database of the exact solution to all HU games <25bb, then whoever has it as a training tool is going to crush all regs up to 1ks currently playing (let alone regs who have previously been playing up to 60s). Ofc liveplay with an aid shouldn't be allowed, but this is the beginning of the end for HU hypers and HUCAP imo.

No, skier_5 have not solved hunl for 25bb.

Just like his software is not some Pied Piper mid-out algorithm type of sensation that would blow everyone away if stars were to explain what the software does. More likely programmers would say "oh, i am allowed to do that? neat".

More likely than not this is not something revolutionary, but a software that was created with pushing the boundaries and testing what you could get away with under current TOS.

I dont think so either, i think the strat for sure has to be solid but their biggest edge originates from the precision of play they can accomplish, since its basically error free when it comes to executing their strat... and i bet you, if you would go through hand histories of high stakes regs you would find numerous errors for a predefined strategy they developed.. Its the nature of humans that we make mistakes.. We strive to minimize them but never can eliminate them.

Kingofcool- we are closer to solving shortstacked HUNL than you think.

All of the top regs are (at least the ones who improved to highstakes recently) using some form of software for analysis. And higher than 100s pretty much everyone is playing with GTO in consideration (blocker effects, mixing etc).

You are right that it's nothing revolutionary, but skier has done the most work and is prob very close to GTO with the bot strategy. There are some other players who have been suspected of being bots for a long time in the HU Hypers community btw. But they have been a bit more low profile.

Yeah this is the thing. Many top players still make mistakes with liveplay even if they had devised very balanced strategies off table.

Apparently the 3 players involved have almost identical frequencies in all spots making it seem like they aren't just using this as a training tool, but it's actually a live aid.

BTW this is not just about 3 players, other names in regard to this have been named in the past, some were reported and yet Stars "cleared them" - whatever that means nowadays.

Well it prob means that they aren't using a tool to calculate strategy on the fly.

However if you have a ready made strategy that is basically GTO, and you are only consulting a pre-calculated chart it is not against Stars ToC. This area is relatively unexplored tho since hitherto computers haven't made a GTO strategy yet.

I'm curious how it works tbh since Snowie is similar but is banned for live consultation.

If they allow it Programs such as Snowie or Icmizer will just release seperate programs where you can put in your strats beforehand and they will pull up the charts for situations occuring and then you just have to monkey click.. Obv. there will be very sophisticated software coming along this way as well that again pushes the boundries, people will start to sell prepacked strats for these kind of softwares, and soon everyone is on another level not making many human mistakes anymore..

No mistakes, no profits, LOTS of rake, Stars happy, but then again, no real point in playing anymore

Daily fantasy sports is going to destroy you!

It's mind boggling, the extent you have all allowed online poker to disintegrate. The end-result will be all you're own fault and it is coming fast. Good for you that the ROW can't play DFS, but here in America threads like this just further solidifies that the time, energy, and work being put into DFS is the 'Optimal" choice as opposed to online poker (LOL its futile and DEAD).

And a little side note, because I hear rumors PS is going to try and get into DFS, here back in the U.S. You do not STAND A CHANCE, fanduel/Draftkings etc. have such a stranglehold on the market share of the U.S DFS playing demographic that it is nothing more than a lofty pipe dream for you to think that you will come to the U.S, and actually can compete in the DFS space.

Reading threads like this makes me happy everyday that DFS has been born in the U.S., and you, as well as online poker is Dying if not already dead!