Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-18-2015, 06:54 PM   #1
callme
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,676
Pokerstars allowing automated decision software?

http://www.husng.com/content/controv...yer-aid-husngs

Basically a semibot kinda software. It has been rumored for a long time that something like is used by people in the husng community, people have been reported without any consequences and now it seems to be offically okay that one can use software playing on stars.. This is just very wrong and a bad direction this is taking imo...
callme is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 07:00 PM   #2
everydaygrind
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 742
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

jokes. more reason to prove that online poker is rigged.
everydaygrind is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 07:04 PM   #3
maad-nervous
centurion
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 112
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

I feel like anyone who plays HU and clicks that is gonna get wrecked in the near future
maad-nervous is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 07:16 PM   #4
fightingcoward
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 2,136
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

Been playing these guys at $200 hypers, it feels like Black Friday all over again. Competing versus players using this software is incredibly difficult. Stars needs to draw the line somewhere on how much computer assistance is allowed, and this clearly has crossed it.
fightingcoward is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 07:21 PM   #5
Joshfan
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,750
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

"The main case against the player aid is that it helps essentially automate many decisions. The proof set forth is that players known to use this aid, such as allingirl777, freechdogg and skier_5 (though several others are rumored to use it), have identical stats in many situations, particularly preflop areas with large samples. Many players believe this crosses a line of fair play."

sigh
Joshfan is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 07:37 PM   #6
Protential
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Protential's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Vegas
Posts: 12,445
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

This is beyond ridiculous.

Amaya ownership is incompetent to such an absurd degree.
Protential is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 07:37 PM   #7
Spl0dg3
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 266
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fightingcoward View Post
Been playing these guys at $200 hypers, it feels like Black Friday all over again. Competing versus players using this software is incredibly difficult. Stars needs to draw the line somewhere on how much computer assistance is allowed, and this clearly has crossed it.
So Sad. Absolutely agree that this goes far beyond what should be acceptable on any online poker platform. You're basically competing versus a machine, albeit that a human is clicking the buttons and could potentially deviate from the machine's strategy, there's close to 0 chance of them doing so. Really hope to see stars change their stance on this and do the right thing. If they truly believe that what's going on doesn't breach their terms of service, then they need to be fully transparent with the community as to what the **** is going on.
Spl0dg3 is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 07:39 PM   #8
kaby
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
kaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: captain of team fold
Posts: 6,229
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

sounds like the 2015 version of my lee jones limit preflop hand chart back in 2007
kaby is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 07:44 PM   #9
DarkMattersMan
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 961
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

Laughing my arsehole off. Well done stars.
DarkMattersMan is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 07:44 PM   #10
iosys
old hand
 
iosys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,753
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

I don't really see the big deal because I'm not getting much detail about the software from link provided.

Is this an automated pre flop calculation based on other player's pre flop range by taking player's hands and calculating what best pre flop range vs them should be?

Or is this similar to pre flop charts but just tells when to fold based on programmed chart.

Seems very similar to just using a hud and knowing pre flop charts and not a big deal.
iosys is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 07:46 PM   #11
Masq
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Masq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 13,737
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshfan View Post
"The main case against the player aid is that it helps essentially automate many decisions. The proof set forth is that players known to use this aid, such as allingirl777, freechdogg and skier_5 (though several others are rumored to use it), have identical stats in many situations, particularly preflop areas with large samples. Many players believe this crosses a line of fair play."

sigh
So why not get the same software if you know they're using it and exploit them if you are aware what decisions they will be provided with?
Masq is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 07:51 PM   #12
TooCuriousso1
Golden 2017
 
TooCuriousso1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: @TCfromUB
Posts: 5,867
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

what are they going to do ban predefined strats and using anything to randomize it (a clock)? i dont see the issue.
TooCuriousso1 is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 07:56 PM   #13
Protential
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Protential's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Vegas
Posts: 12,445
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

5.5 EXTERNAL PLAYER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS (EPA).

PokerStars prohibits those External Player Assistance Programs ("EPA Programs") which are designed to provide an "Unfair Advantage" to players. PokerStars defines "External" to mean computer software (other than the Software), and non-software-based databases or profiles (e.g. web sites and subscription services). PokerStars defines an "Unfair Advantage" as any instance in which a User accesses or compiles information on other players beyond that which the User has personally observed through the User's own game play. We encourage you to read our Third Party Tools and Services FAQ.

Breaks their TOS and stars gives 0 ****s.
Protential is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 07:58 PM   #14
DarkMattersMan
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 961
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

Whats the name of that extremely helpful and productive stars rep on here again? Lee something?
DarkMattersMan is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 08:03 PM   #15
TeamTrousers
talks the talk
 
TeamTrousers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Remembering when stars was good
Posts: 12,902
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

In before Josem

Spoiler:



Seriously though, obviously this sounds bad on the surface, but I think we need to know a little bit more about what it is actually doing, rather than just jumping to conclusions based on what we think it might be doing

Quote:
The players using the aid have not as of yet revealed all the exact details of how it works or what it does
TeamTrousers is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 08:05 PM   #16
dzapp
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 260
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

Do any of these coaching sites that take profits as payment, using this software and it this software related to the guy who used to promote the POKERS TOOLBOX or something like that to basically make students become horses for the site

either way, they need to ban all software, all of it crosses the line of what poker is
dzapp is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 08:20 PM   #17
TheJacob
veteran
 
TheJacob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,491
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

Don't know what the software actually does, but there is a huge difference between a hand chart and software that actually automates and/or tells you what to do.

In hypers/super turbos for example having a hand chart doesn't do much to help people who don't have them memorized because they fill a notebook. Having software that tells you what action to take based on your hand, stacksizes, players left,etc obviously makes it idiot proof.

The software can actually be better than any chart as it can differentiate between 9 BBs, 9.1BBs,etc.
TheJacob is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 08:20 PM   #18
callme
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,676
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTrousers View Post
In before Josem

Spoiler:



Seriously though, obviously this sounds bad on the surface, but I think we need to know a little bit more about what it is actually doing, rather than just jumping to conclusions based on what we think it might be doing
How about that for a little more - i know some of these guys... they never played higher stakes in their lifes... some 60s some 100s husngs.. and all of a sudden they CRUSH regs at 200s and breeze through the cartels in a few months that takes other regs forever.... And all those regs at those levels actually look kinda bad vs them.

Aside from that, everyone who thinks that is not a huge advantage, HUSNGs are a science of extremly exact play - and since its shortstack, the strategies available are actually very solid and hard to exploit. So know you have your strat and you can just apply that strat across many tables without thinking much if thats a call or 3bet shove, thus you can focus on other play, how is that NOT a huge (automated) edge..

And lets face it, if they are already doing it preflop, who says they dont do something similar postflop, because why stop preflop....

And for people who say they used a handchart, yeah well, most regs have something like this esp. in shorter stack play. Yet the number of deviations they make in just one single game from their optimal strategy due to loss of focus, tilt, whatever, is big.. And thats why we play as human.. Otherwise lets just all program bots and they play our strategies...
callme is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 08:21 PM   #19
dstock
adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 855
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masq View Post
So why not get the same software if you know they're using it and exploit them if you are aware what decisions they will be provided with?
How would you know? I think each player that uses any software for help should be identified at the table.
dstock is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 08:27 PM   #20
callme
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,676
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstock View Post
How would you know? I think each player that uses any software for help should be identified at the table.
Not only that - a player should be given the option to play that person or not.
callme is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 08:27 PM   #21
The4thFilm
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
The4thFilm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,472
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

Humans are now the accountants of bots.
The4thFilm is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 08:27 PM   #22
Spl0dg3
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 266
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooCuriousso1 View Post
what are they going to do ban predefined strats and using anything to randomize it (a clock)? i dont see the issue.
If a player employs a computer program to randomise their predefined strategy at intervals that they would not be able to achieve without the use of a computer program, are you still playing the player, or are we playing the computer? We're quite clearly not playing only the human. Clocks,RNGs and other methods of randomisation that involve the human to complete the randomisation process are all incredibly difficult to employ on a 15 second timebank, especially if you want to use really small intervals. From what I've been told about this program, i don't think its entirely comparable.
Spl0dg3 is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 08:32 PM   #23
callme
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,676
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

So do i understand that correctly, you are saying that program not just shows some charts but apparently calculates frequencies on a predetermined strategy and then shows the action to take.. e.g. lets say 15bb deep, my standard action is to limp A6s 20% of the time 70% i minraise and 10% i openshove, and the program just automizes those decisions that in the end we have a very balanced strategy...
callme is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 08:34 PM   #24
skier_5
Pooh-Bah
 
skier_5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 5,443
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

I have a few things to say:

1) There is no automated decision software.

2) Poker is a competitive game so Iím sure all of you understand my unwillingness to go into further details or address specific points of the accusations.

3) As mentioned in the article Pokerstars did a thorough investigation and found us to be within the TOS. Ryan (owner of HUSNG.com) knows this and yet he still writes an article full of hyperbole based on guesses and wild accusations many of which are clearly not in line with the TOS of Pokerstars.

4) While it may be obvious to those involved in HUSNG, Ryan sells a variety of content and has a large stable of horses. Coffeeyay is basically a full-time coach who provides his students with numerous pre flop charts. I donít think I need to point out the both the conflict of interest and the hypocrisy in this pointed attack.

5) Ryan came to me asking for a comment prior to publishing this article:
ďiím working on a story about the "controversy" surrounding your techniques/information
trying to have a balanced story that has the facts out there so that people can make a real judgement and not just hysteria (or out of context "bots" type stuff)
i guess if you have an argument you'd like to share about why it should be OK, that would be ideal for me... what i plan to go with absent anything else is more along the lines of "nash type charts are allowed during play" i'm not sure that's maximally compelling though
(and i will be mentioning that stars says it is OK, but you know that stuff is constantly changing)Ē

As you might expect, Iím not going to volunteer information for no reason, so I declined to comment. Iíll let you judge whether he followed through with the way he presented his intentions to me. I refer you to point 3.

6) I thank the few people with sense in this thread.

7) Given the above, could a mod please change the title of this thread to something more appropriate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Protential View Post
5.5 EXTERNAL PLAYER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS (EPA).

PokerStars prohibits those External Player Assistance Programs ("EPA Programs") which are designed to provide an "Unfair Advantage" to players. PokerStars defines "External" to mean computer software (other than the Software), and non-software-based databases or profiles (e.g. web sites and subscription services). PokerStars defines an "Unfair Advantage" as any instance in which a User accesses or compiles information on other players beyond that which the User has personally observed through the User's own game play. We encourage you to read our Third Party Tools and Services FAQ.

Breaks their TOS and stars gives 0 ****s.
8) I think this clause actually refers to things like against TOS data mining sites. You know, like the one which my results and stats were taken from and posted all over Skype?
skier_5 is offline  
Old 05-18-2015, 08:35 PM   #25
squire1888
old hand
 
squire1888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: scotland
Posts: 1,683
Re: Pokerstars allowing automated decision software... WTF is wrong with them...

so absurd stars get your act together and ban these cheating ****s

Last edited by squire1888; 05-18-2015 at 08:48 PM. Reason: cos wubblepig said so
squire1888 is offline  

Closed Thread
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online