I thought you were suppoused to stop posting. And it's not something like that fe AKo vs 77 is 45-55.

thid is just wrong , how often will you have 70%+ situation and how much overfolding you will be doing because of your wrong way of thinking? How easy will it be to play against you since you are folding to raises and cbets all hands beside sets on the flop or on the turn? we are talking plo right? makes no difference if plo or Holdem i suppose allthough i was referring to plo gameplay.

I love how this is never anyone's "last post"

-BD

It's funny how the feature even pops up when u have an all in spot where u have 100% equity eg flush over flush on the turn without fh redraw, happened to me lol. Like how shady is that

thats just tipping the dealer, very common in casinos

I'm suprised there's actually this many recs using this feature... Just had a guy cashing out his 0.5bb worth of equity

If one is willing to not move down no matter what, then one doesn't take the insurance -- but when one thinks the removal aspect might make it okay.

If one is going to take a shot, then taking the insurance looks better to me.

With insurance, one has a better shot to make it at a higher limit, and if unlucky, being less unlucky and stay there longer.

One might not cash out 10% as it doesn't make that much a difference and it helps a lot if one wins when making shots.

Cashing out 20% (40% of one's stack) looks like a good deal to me when making shots.

It might not be very often that you can say with a great degree of confidence. But hand reading is pretty big part of poker, even though it is rare that you have 100% confidence about your opponents’ holdings. There are certainly times when I think it is more likely than not that my opponent has a flush draw. And even a slight improvement over a completely uninformed range could be enough to overcome the 1% rake on the odds that Pokerstars gives you.

I’d also note that I used to play a lot of LO8, and in that game I you often -could- conclude with a high degree of confidence how many Aces were left in the deck before the flop.

The info you get from seeing how other people played the hands wouldn't change equities nearly enough to justify the 1%.

Definitively knowing 4 additional hole cards that aren't being included, though, can alter equities in by a couple percentage points, and knowing 16 dead cards will reliably alter it by a few points - sometimes more than 5%. A group of people colluding at higher stake tables could conceivably scoop a few % points of equity on all ins by having only the guy who has equity favorable to what is being computed (given exposed cards) taking the insurance. At higher stake tables this is a lot more than the 1% + 5% max 2 you pay in rake.

Would not be surprised to see someone try it. At 50/100 plo a table of 6 people colluding could be making upwards of $500ish per hand that gets all in courtesy of pokerstars.

Pokerstars have addressed this and said they thought of it from the start and have measures to monitor and detect it

Colluding for 5bbs and risking to get banned doesn't seem a smart thing to do.

I think pokerstars conjured up a goldmine. btn here cashed out in the aipf



edit: or maybe he's a genius, just cashed out after being all in on the flop, saved him 3.2k

are there antes in your game?

solid strat if so

At high limits they pay like 5 to 20 per pot when they cashout but it is just a 1.x% rake compared to a 5.x% rake at low limits. Mid limit is in-between.

The relative rake increase is much smaller at lower limits but 1.x% rake is almost rake free.

GGnetwork has a 3% PLO rake with no cap and one can take an insurance also (the cost vary and is unknown but many times higher).

This has been done plenty in the past and you dont need an allin cashout feature to do it.

I believe years ago there were players colluding at MS plo and ran super hot in allin EV because of card sharing.

So overall what % EV are you paying if you insure?

Is any tracker out there capable of processing those hands correctly?

Not yet afaik

Holdem Manager don't seem all that interested in fixing it, it's been weeks with no news. Could understand if it was a small site but the majority of their customers are affected.

DriveHud are adding support, I'll probably switch when they do, they're adding RIO hand history support as well (HM already said no to that).

I'm giving you the maths below:

Basic assumptions:
NL10
Rake 4,5% (cap 1,5$)
100BB both all in players
Equity 20% (EXACTLY)

NO CASHOUT:
POT: 10$ = 20$ - 0,9$ (Rake) = 19,1$
When you have exactly 20% EQ you should on average win 1 out of 5 hands so let's do the maths:
10$ * 5 (your 5 times all in investment) = 50$ - 19,1$ (your winnings on average) = 30,9$ (the amount you are down)

CASHOUT:
maths for cashout: (pot-rake)*EQ to win a hand*0,99 (1% for the insurance) so:
19,1*0,2 (your EQ) * 0,99 = 3,78$ (that's the money you get insuring this situation)
now you are in all-in situation 5 times: 3,78*5=18,91 so your investment loss looks like this:
10$*5 = 50$ - 18,91$ = 31,09

So after 5 all-in's you are down 0,19$

When you play long term (like at least 10-15k hands per month) in similar situations you can be at least 500 times, so you loose around 19$ more...

And the best thing is... the more EQ you have and you are insuring the more in reality you loose...

(f.e. if you insure 80% EQ you loose on average 0,75$ per 5 hands so 75$ per 500 hands with 80% EQ )

I've done the maths as simply as i could just to show the situation on average not counting how much you loose in specific hands and EQ, because on almost every hand you will have a chance for a split pot as well.
The worst thing is that if you insure you are getting only the Equity to win the hand and if you play you always have some equity to split... when you would count it exactly you loose even more when you insure.

So don't tilt and don't take cashout XD...

I think it is just 1% of the EQ.

If it is a split pot, you get your EQ at Stars while at GGnetwork, you get only half a pot -- and pay in full for split outs also like one would have won the pot; meaning you can pay a higher price when you insure 2-pair, straights, straight draws and many combos at GG; one might insure a set or a flush there as it doesn't matter if 2-pair (or a straight) happens as a split. One can try to run it 3 times instead (the guy ahead isn't as likely to accept it as he doesn't want to give his opponent better odds to save money. I will run it as many times as possible vs. anyone with a full stack and more so vs. a fish but if I want him to build up).

At Stars, one worries about the 1%, and more so the higher cost of insuring higher EQ, and in my case, the removal of high/low cards.

I am not too worried to pay 1% in a 5% more or less no cap PLO game but will pretty fast move to insure only pots that I don't win often but can get up to half of my stack back if I insure. I am also looking for the removals to give me an extra reason to insure or not to insure.

Insuring some 80% pots and so on can be tempting but questionable and in cases, the opponent has next to no wins.

Having next to anything 3+ways in a big pot, I think I will cash it out and not be sorry when making shots. Later, I might insure maybe (16-)33% 3-ways as I win it only that often. Heads up, when insuring 50% EQ, I win it that often. In both cases, I pay 1% of my stack (of 100 bb). It is unlikely to be 0.5% heads up and .33% 3-ways -- that would make the insurance more attractive.

One can gamble also when shotting up as one might get lucky too. But the odds are higher one will lose enough to move back down (sooner). I did that just before the insurance came there and won but right after I got a similar losing streak.

I am not a big fan of insuring when the games are tougher as they are more heads up and less fish reason to insure.

? in general

Went through my database and filtered for situations in which I've been using the cashout feature. Pots above 160bb with at least 45% AIEQ but less than 100. Turns out cashing out costs me 0.73 bb/100 at PLO 50. I'm willing to pay that.

easy to say when you don't run 20 buy ins under ev only this month. plus loosing 85% ev pots twice in a row.

TBH i don't know... i usually play around 15k hands/month so i think those are hidden somewhare