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05-31-2017 , 01:17 AM
Polks awful preflop guys. Hes only won over a million live streaming the past 2 years. Imagine if he was good and could fold q6 off pre how many millions he would be up. What a fish.
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05-31-2017 , 01:21 AM
Not sure if it got posted, but he went over the Q6o hand in his recent vlog on youtube if you guys are interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPK6ywbrKV4 towards the end.
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05-31-2017 , 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySirius
I am a winner in NLHE and a loser in PLO, despite the fact that I am 5 times better at PLO than NLHE.

Let's not beat around the bush, this was terrible play. If an unknown posted the hand they would be called a fish. Essentially it is throwing away a tournament for no good reason.
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05-31-2017 , 01:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey
I am a winner in NLHE and a loser in PLO, despite the fact that I am 5 times better at PLO than NLHE.

Let's not beat around the bush, this was terrible play. If an unknown posted the hand they would be called a fish. Essentially it is throwing away a tournament for no good reason.
DP got caught thinking on a higher level against a fairly straight-forward opponent, and then got lulled in later streets into perhaps thinking that this opponent was thinking at a level close enough to his, to make a call on the river slightly reasonable.

It's a bit humorous though how people who are 99% likely to be not anywhere close to DP's skill level talk about how he made a horrible play in one hand.

Last edited by momentaryblip; 05-31-2017 at 01:56 AM.
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05-31-2017 , 01:52 AM
Its really bad. I dont like the flop raise neither. (Middle range type hand) You just narrowing ranges down. Turn call is just superbad for sure. #toomuchmoneyfromupswing
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05-31-2017 , 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cznsnowy91
Not sure if it got posted, but he went over the Q6o hand in his recent vlog on youtube if you guys are interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPK6ywbrKV4 towards the end.
Pre seems close but fine given he's against 2 recs and has position on 1. Flop is whatevs can go either way. Turn is just bad both from exploitative (recs don't usually lead pot as a bluff, especially not after getting raised previous street) and theoretical (he's near the bottom of his range) standpoint.

Also he said at the start of the vlog how happy he was about his table then he goes and takes such a razor thin spot. Too punty imo.
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05-31-2017 , 02:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey
I am a winner in NLHE and a loser in PLO, despite the fact that I am 5 times better at PLO than NLHE.

Let's not beat around the bush, this was terrible play. If an unknown posted the hand they would be called a fish. Essentially it is throwing away a tournament for no good reason.
card removal bro, card removal
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05-31-2017 , 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philfan05
These Mario Ho interviews are so cringy.
*Jason Mercier busts*

"Jason, you haven't cashed in a buy-in over $100,000. How does it feel to not cash again in such a huge buy-in?"

He handled her ridiculous question incredibly well.
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05-31-2017 , 03:00 AM
Eh Doug admitted his mistake
Obviously played super long session over multiple days, seemed tired as ****, and he's no MTT live reg
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05-31-2017 , 05:41 AM
it's somewhat strange that someone opens for a minraise and the BB can check to see a flop.
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05-31-2017 , 05:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by enzet
it's somewhat strange that someone opens for a minraise and the BB can check to see a flop.
It would be of that was what could happen, but it doesn't.
BB pays the antes before the blinds are posted.
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05-31-2017 , 05:52 AM
true
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05-31-2017 , 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey
Fedor has to be getting some incredible live reads IMO as I don't think his technical skill edge, although very large, can possibly be big enough alone for him to go so deep in so many comps. Obviously an unknown is variance too.

So although he's an obvious pick, he is my pick.

Of the more "unfancied" players I feel like Doug Polk, Tony G and Daniel Negreanu all have a decent shot, for two reasons. a) because I think they are all playing on relaxed money so can play focused but also freely without fear and b) because they are all unorthodox players compared to a large group of very technically minded tournament players that make up the bulk of the field.

With all due respect to Doug Polk, he *appears* to be one of the worst pre flop players ever to play and cash big/win in high stakes MTTs. E.g. set mining with terrible implied odds and calling OOP with trash and poor implied odds. But this must also mean that he is super skillful and difficult to play against post flop and everyone knows he is pretty deadly on the river.

So my 1st to 8th place finish forecast is:

Winner: Fedor Holz
Runner Up: Nicky Petrangelo
3rd place: Daniel Negreanu
4th: Dan Smith
5th: Doug Polk
6th: Brian Rast
7th: Tony G
8th: David Peters
Oh wow. You were serious. I thought you were trolling.
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05-31-2017 , 07:14 AM
Obviously you know that everyone knows that variance is a known unknown obviously.

Of the more "unfancied" players I feel like Kevin Hart, Tony G and Bill Klein all have a decent shot, for two reasons. a) because I think they are all playing on relaxed money so can play focused but also freely without fear and b) because they are all unorthodox players compared to a large group of very technically minded tournament players that make up the bulk of the field.

Obviously Doug Polk doesn't know how to play pre-flop. He doesn't understand implied odds or how ranges interact. He also doesn't realise that some hands under-realise their equity. Especially out of position. Confirmed pre flop fish. He's great on rivers though. He just shoves every time and applies the maximum pressure.

Winner: Phil Ivey
Runner Up: Dave Ulliot
3rd place: Tony G
4th: Jamie Gold
5th: Darvin Moon
6th: Kevin Hart
7th: Tony G
8th: Jason Mercier
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05-31-2017 , 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L1lyR0semary
Obviously you know that everyone knows that variance is a known unknown obviously.

Of the more "unfancied" players I feel like Kevin Hart, Tony G and Bill Klein all have a decent shot, for two reasons. a) because I think they are all playing on relaxed money so can play focused but also freely without fear and b) because they are all unorthodox players compared to a large group of very technically minded tournament players that make up the bulk of the field.

Obviously Doug Polk doesn't know how to play pre-flop. He doesn't understand implied odds or how ranges interact. He also doesn't realise that some hands under-realise their equity. Especially out of position. Confirmed pre flop fish. He's great on rivers though. He just shoves every time and applies the maximum pressure.

Winner: Phil Ivey
Runner Up: Dave Ulliot
3rd place: Tony G
4th: Jamie Gold
5th: Darvin Moon
6th: Kevin Hart
7th: Tony G
8th: Jason Mercier
Strong post. I bet your right.
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05-31-2017 , 07:33 AM
Lol the funny thing is that sagedonkey is right and doug polk really is very bad preflop compred to the pros in the field (which are mostly worldclassplayers tbf)
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05-31-2017 , 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L1lyR0semary
Obviously you know that everyone knows that variance is a known unknown obviously.

Of the more "unfancied" players I feel like Kevin Hart, Tony G and Bill Klein all have a decent shot, for two reasons. a) because I think they are all playing on relaxed money so can play focused but also freely without fear and b) because they are all unorthodox players compared to a large group of very technically minded tournament players that make up the bulk of the field.

Obviously Doug Polk doesn't know how to play pre-flop. He doesn't understand implied odds or how ranges interact. He also doesn't realise that some hands under-realise their equity. Especially out of position. Confirmed pre flop fish. He's great on rivers though. He just shoves every time and applies the maximum pressure.

Winner: Phil Ivey
Runner Up: Dave Ulliot
3rd place: Tony G
4th: Jamie Gold
5th: Darvin Moon
6th: Kevin Hart
7th: Tony G
8th: Jason Mercier
Tony G cashing twice, impressive!
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05-31-2017 , 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L1lyR0semary
Obviously you know that everyone knows that variance is a known unknown obviously.

Of the more "unfancied" players I feel like Kevin Hart, Tony G and Bill Klein all have a decent shot, for two reasons. a) because I think they are all playing on relaxed money so can play focused but also freely without fear and b) because they are all unorthodox players compared to a large group of very technically minded tournament players that make up the bulk of the field.

Obviously Doug Polk doesn't know how to play pre-flop. He doesn't understand implied odds or how ranges interact. He also doesn't realise that some hands under-realise their equity. Especially out of position. Confirmed pre flop fish. He's great on rivers though. He just shoves every time and applies the maximum pressure.

Winner: Phil Ivey
Runner Up: Dave Ulliot
3rd place: Tony G
4th: Jamie Gold
5th: Darvin Moon
6th: Kevin Hart
7th: Tony G
8th: Jason Mercier
Okay you got me! Brilliant. Rofl.
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05-31-2017 , 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey
Okay you got me! Brilliant. Rofl.
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05-31-2017 , 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoffcompletely
Pot odds get less and less relevant as more players enter the pot. Hands like Q6o get absolutely hammered OOP deep against multiple strong ranges. Also because almost everyone tends to bet more than is theoretically correct a hand like Q6o will likely capture less ev than it should at equilibrium.

That said the line between +ev, 0ev and -ev is so fine here that it's kinda pointless to try and get super precise about it. Even if it is a mistake to peel there it's a very very small one.
Agree with this. I think it's actually a leak of some very good players who are now use to peeling almost any two out of the BB facing a small raise in a heads up pot, because they extrapolate that to multiway pots (omg pot odds!) where it is actually a losing play (and I think the software that can handle this is showing this also).

That being said, in Doug's hand he was deep against two of the weaker players and had position on one, so it's probably fine in this instance. If there were two solid high roller regs in the pot instead of the older guys, it would be a losing play.
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05-31-2017 , 12:15 PM
really enjoying the coverage so far

rooting hard for pratyush with koon a close second

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05-31-2017 , 12:22 PM
LIssi I just don't see how u think the Mtt players in this field are rly gonna start saying dougs pf game plan is off base. Whatever his approach is it's obviously working
Now I might not be super in tune w all the strat but I've seen vids from sauce as well who rly emphasize that you basically don't want to be folding at all for reasons pot dds mostly. so which players who have made more money at mtts are saying lol yo polks leaking so hard pf I'm about to pwn
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05-31-2017 , 12:29 PM
Doug literally won almost 300k a week ago shipping a Sunday major. He knows how to play tournaments. Yes, he busted out of a high profile, high buy in tourney in a very strange hand. I give him credit for having the balls to make the plays he makes. And no, he's not always going to be right. Even Doug admitted the turn call was a mistake. Not too sure why his preflop strat is turning into a big debate....
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05-31-2017 , 12:32 PM
villain flats from SB = fairly strong range
SB donks into a preflop opener and BB on monotone/connected board = pretty strong range
Villain overbets turn OOP after being raised 333% on a flop lead = strong range

=lol turn call
=lol turn bet (although it worked quite nicely, usually that's a bluff in this spot)
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05-31-2017 , 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016
LIssi I just don't see how u think the Mtt players in this field are rly gonna start saying dougs pf game plan is off base. Whatever his approach is it's obviously working
Now I might not be super in tune w all the strat but I've seen vids from sauce as well who rly emphasize that you basically don't want to be folding at all for reasons pot dds mostly. so which players who have made more money at mtts are saying lol yo polks leaking so hard pf I'm about to pwn
And why on earth ESPECIALLY if true would any of them come out and say that?
He's winning the online outreach game, influences tons of fun regs and recreationals if anything they'd be very supportive or keep their mouth shut.

Besides, Doug never claimed he's a MTT expert or that he studies anywhere remotely how much he used to for HU. He just crushes with his existing poker knowledge which especially for postflop should be enough to beat most MTT regs for years
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