Palm beach wsopc 25k chip stolen from FT (DQ'd/banned from WSOP/C events)) - Page 22 - Poker News

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Palm beach wsopc 25k chip stolen from FT (DQ'd/banned from WSOP/C events))

View Poll Results: Your position on the actions taken by PBKC and WSOP

Completely agree.

120 38.59%

Completely disagree.

44 14.15%

Should lose position & 1 year ban.

64 20.58%

Should lose $$$ & position & 1 year ban.

47 15.11%

Bastard!

36 11.58%

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02-28-2014 , 08:32 PM

#526

jjjou812

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,824

Quote:

Originally Posted by doublejoker

Wat?

Thanks for that citation.

Type Merson in the search function or just continue to be a hypocritical possum......

Quote

02-28-2014 , 08:37 PM

#527

jjjou812

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,824

They won't facilitate it because the do not want to incur the potential liability of people breaching their agreements and, at the same time, maintain the illusion that poker is a sport.

Quote

02-28-2014 , 09:17 PM

#528

rookie47

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by doublejoker

Wat?

so...Mr Chain....as I sit heads up at a wsop final table.....and I turn down a deal....do I then jump up and say....."he offered me a deal, dq HIM"????

and...u have never in your life made an "illegal deal"????

NOW WE ALL KNOW U NEVER HAVE ENOUGH CHIPS TO STEAL ONE OFF THE TABLE.....SO WE WONT ASK THAT ????

MR CHAIN....PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME ON ALL YOUR WISDOM......TY

Quote

02-28-2014 , 09:21 PM

#529

inmyrav

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 1,719

Quote:

Originally Posted by white_lytning

Here is why imo he should get an attorney:

1. He paid for and won an event.
2. The winner of the event is entitled to $x.
3. He is being denied $x because he allegedly cheated.
4. Cheating is defined as breaking a rule to gain an advantage.
5. Even if everything they allege is true he DID NOT gain an advantage by removing a chip and therefore did not cheat.
6. He is entitled to $x.

3 is wrong. He is being denied $x because he broke a tournament rule.

Quote

02-28-2014 , 09:43 PM

#530

RadioActive1

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,973

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

IMO it would be unwise to sue since right now he is only 86'd from Ceasars properties/PBKC/Wsop events but if he files suit other venues may think he gets caught cheating then sues so let's not gamble and just 86 him. A suit even if he wins could be costly to his poker career. By way a suit will not get him un 86'd and by the time the lawyer gets his 35/40% plus expenses he will only get only get 20-25K, might not be worth the possible repercussions from other venues.

This is silly

Quote

02-28-2014 , 09:56 PM

#531

bigtex21

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioActive1

This is silly

Might be silly but true

Quote

02-28-2014 , 10:20 PM

#532

browser2920

Niceness Influencer

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 6,525

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Aces 518

Amazing how B&M is full of OMG LOOK AT THIS BAD UNFAIR THING THAT HAPPENED TO ME, but anytime something like this happens people just want to torch and pitchfork up. I despise cheaters and thieves, and if this had happened 3 handed, I would absolutely support every inch of the penalty. But the punishment should fit the crime.

Please do not conflate the B&M posters with the NVG posters in order to make a point. That's just not right. It assumes a commonality of thinking between the two groups that for the most part does not exist.

Quote

02-28-2014 , 10:29 PM

#533

doublejoker

Old News

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,953

Quote:

Originally Posted by riverph7

AK if the rule is not in the rule book it is not binding. Only thing it says WSOP will not facilitate the chop.

And as long is the point system is not affected then I don't see anything wrong in it.

There were still more events to play. This chip dump agreement affected every single player in the casino points race for a $10k seat, as well as the national race.

Quote

02-28-2014 , 10:40 PM

#534

jjjou812

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,824

Quote:

Originally Posted by doublejoker

There were still more events to play. This chip dump agreement affected every single player in the casino points race for a $10k seat, as well as the national race.

Way to stick to your guns without a shred of proof. I will bet the Borgata fake chips had a bigger impact than this issue had on the national points race.
Or from your perspective, given the buy in amounts, .0001 of the effect as your teammates chip dump at the PCA.

DQ a guy for a heads up chip chop, what a joke!

Quote

02-28-2014 , 10:50 PM

#535

Arctic-Aces

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 283

theres a 12.5 point difference between 1st and 2nd in an event, that is huge in both the casino champ and national point race. 12.5pts is almost 10% of what someone would need for a seat in the national race, as i believe 127pts was the cutoff last year

Quote

02-28-2014 , 11:05 PM

#536

jjjou812

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,824

Unless I'm looking at the wrong list, the top 100 have between 400-1000 points. Also, it says Merson, among other named pros, is automatically invited this year. According to Joker's logic, throwing his points should be even worse, right?

Plus, how many points they give out in a year compared to the 12 point difference is miniscule.

(Personally, imho Merson did nothing wrong when he chopped)

Quote

02-28-2014 , 11:09 PM

#537

Arctic-Aces

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 283

youre looking at the wrong list

Quote

03-01-2014 , 12:46 AM

#538

therealsaltydog

banned

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 404

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rzitup

The amount of tournament chips that go missing at the end of each WSOP (most because of souvenirs), is pretty big. I bet if you searched ebay right now you could find some.

This

Happens in every single MTT played at every casino.

Quote

03-01-2014 , 12:52 AM

#539

therealsaltydog

banned

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 404

Quote:

Originally Posted by BustoPro

So you are saying celebrities are treated differently from everyone else?

Um... welcome to the world, I guess.

Next thing you know professional sports athletes will be getting special treatment too.

Quote

03-01-2014 , 08:54 AM

#540

riverph7

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,423

76% for some kind of punishment vs 15 % it's ok to brake rule!!

Interesting .

Every one has right to express their opinion.

Quote

03-01-2014 , 09:25 AM

#541

DaycareInferno

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 18,285

Quote:

Originally Posted by riverph7

76% for some kind of punishment vs 15 % it's ok to brake rule!!

Interesting .

Every one has right to express their opinion.

There is no "it's okay to brake rule!!" option. It just says "completely disagree." I doubt there's anyone that thinks that nothing at all should be done.

Quote

03-01-2014 , 12:19 PM

#542

therealsaltydog

banned

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 404

Quote:

Originally Posted by rookie47

So every player that has a chip from an event should be banned?

As I stated earlier I have a $25 wsop chip that I kept as a souvenir....and a dealer gave me a $5k wsop chip.....he said he had a bunch of chips.....now this was back in 2005-2007 range......
!!

If they banned every player who took a souvenir chip, there wouldn't be many big MTTs left.

Quote

03-01-2014 , 12:32 PM

#543

therealsaltydog

banned

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 404

Quote:

Originally Posted by strizis

Its just unfathomable to me how many people want to protect/believe in/ think the punishment is too much/ over this guy, and this case. He stole chip(s). End of story, he should be banned for a long, long time from all poker rooms. There is not a player among you all, that doesn't know chips are not allowed off the table. Period, for any reason. 99.9% of you have never even considered taking a chip, much less take one, so why defend this guy.

As far as all the legal eagles posting, I'll sincerely believe he won't file a lawsuit, because most poker players, and even "ignorant about gambling" juries would side with PBKC, and the WSOP. And I'll reiterate the damage these cheaters are doing to the game of poker, which we all love to play is immense. The cost of playing is also going to go up on account of these cheaters.

99.9%? Where is your info to back up this ridiculous number?

Quote

03-01-2014 , 12:44 PM

#544

jjjou812

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,824

Quote:

Originally Posted by strizis

As far as all the legal eagles posting, I'll sincerely believe he won't file a lawsuit, because most poker players, and even "ignorant about gambling" juries would side with PBKC, and the WSOP.

As over 90% of all civil cases resolve before trial, the possible bias of a jury is not the deciding factor (or even a factor) in the decision to file a lawsuit for a guy screwed out of an average americans yearly income, sincere beliefs notwithstanding.

Quote

03-01-2014 , 12:56 PM

#545

therealsaltydog

banned

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 404

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcasement

The interesting part of the rules is that the penalty for a violation of the rules is left strictly up the HOST PROPERTY, up to and including banning the individual from WSOP properties. I find this interesting because the rules allow the Casino to make the decision but apparently the WSOP made their own independent decision banning him from their properties and according to the rules only the HOST PROPERTY has this right.

Interesting enough this is the rule allowing sanctions:
Anyone found to have engaged in or attempted to engage in any act that Tournament officials believe in their sole and absolute discretion compromises or could compromise the competitive integrity of the WSOPC will be subject to sanctions imposed by the Host Property.k

So the legal question is? If someone is taking a chip as a souvenir, how is it compromising the integrity of the game or the competitive integrity of the game? The PBKC indicated that it did not take into account the intent of the player. I think this was an error because based on his intent, the integrity of the game was not compromised and the PBKC indicated in its investigation that the tournament was not compromised.

You have to love rules, because the WSOP makes the rules you have to follow the rules, and clearly they did not follow them because PBKC must come to the conclusion that the integrity of the game is compromised before sanctions can be imposed.

PBKC and WSOP will lose this case based on its own rules.

Well said

Quote

03-01-2014 , 01:23 PM

#546

jcasement

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

Might be silly but true

It is silly, I would say stupid, not true and pure speculation.

Quote

03-01-2014 , 01:32 PM

#547

jjjou812

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,824

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcasement

So the legal question is? If someone is taking a chip as a souvenir, how is it compromising the integrity of the game or the competitive integrity of the game? The PBKC indicated that it did not take into account the intent of the player. I think this was an error because based on his intent, the integrity of the game was not compromised and the PBKC indicated in its investigation that the tournament was not compromised.

Because of the timing of taking a chip as a souvenir, I don't see how he compromised the integrity of the tournament that he won.
But, if you don't believe the souvenir theory his conduct could compromise the competitive integrity of any future game, which subjects him to banning. I think his intent (and credibility) is relevant to justify the ban.

Quote

03-01-2014 , 01:53 PM

#548

bestindabiz51

adept

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,132

emailed noah a few days ago about getting more money cuz i cashed and i still havent gotten a response. anyone else?

Quote

03-01-2014 , 02:17 PM

#549

sirswish6

Iron Sharpens Iron

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 7,055

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjjou812

I don't really understand why people are defending this guy. He took a chip as a souvenir is his story, well that's against the rules, and its a pretty huge breach. Just because someone doesn't know the rules doesn't mean he should catch a break. Also, all this talk about a lot of people taking souvenir chips, how many of them took a 25k chip instead of a quarter chip? ffs its so blatantly obvious this guy was attempting to cheat, and for some reason ppl feel bad for this guy. The guy has been playing live mtts for years it appears, and hes trying to say taking the biggest denomination chip is no big deal? **** this guy. He deserves everything that happens to him. People should be thankful that wsop and the Kennel Club are making a big deal about cheaters, which is what a lot of people express that they want to happen until it happens then they get a soft spot for some dumb criminal.