***NVG's Official One and Only DFS Thread*** - Page 11 - Poker News

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10-09-2015 , 11:45 AM

#251

BadlyBeaten

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,300

Quote:

Originally Posted by THAY3R

Wait, do you think that when you click "Submit Lineup" you have to wait for an employee to view it and okay your entry?

Wait, do you think there is a way to confirm that an entry was received before lock or after? Wait, do you think?

Quote

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10-09-2015 , 12:12 PM

#252

THAY3R

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 36,550

You said this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten

Um, that would mean there would be no way to confirm a lineup was received prior to lock.

in response to this:

Quote:

Lineups have to be 100% not accessible to employees prior to lock.

Not really sure what to say, agree to disagree good sir!

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10-09-2015 , 12:13 PM

#253

ReliableSource

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,306

Quote:

Originally Posted by namisgr11

Apparently a class action lawsuit has indeed been filed.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/302...ed-draft-kings

Sadly, the best way for 98% of us to make money from Draftkings is to quit and hopefully get a $50 check 2-4 years from now.

Quote

10-09-2015 , 12:22 PM

#254

Clevername69

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,472

I received this e-mail from Draftkings this morning:

As the three co-founders of DraftKings, we want to speak to you directly about what has been going on.

We know that you play DraftKings because it's fun and because it gives you a chance to showcase your skills against millions of other fans, and we know that you cannot do that without a level playing field.

The fairness and integrity of our contests has been at the heart of everything we have built since we started the company three and a half years ago.

Over the past week, questions have arisen around an employee of ours who won a significant prize on a competitor's site. While our internal investigation has reflected absolutely no wrongdoing on his part, this has still pushed us to reevaluate our processes.

Long before this happened, the wheels were in motion for an external review of our policies and procedures. Given the pace of our growth, we felt that an audit was critical to ensure the security of our platform, so we hired an external law firm experienced with these issues to conduct a full review.

But that is not enough. In addition to this audit, we have put in place a set of core measures that we believe are central to this process:

•We expanded our existing policy prohibiting DraftKings employees from playing on our site to prohibit participation in any public daily fantasy sports contests for money.

•We also will prohibit employees from any other Daily Fantasy Sports contest operator from participating in games on DraftKings.

•We are actively reviewing our organizational structure and will add resources to ensure compliance with all recommendations stemming from internal and external findings.

•We are working with multiple third parties to strengthen all internal policies and procedures.
The events of the past week have caused us to take a broader look and to ask those both here and externally to widen the scope of their analysis of our business.

We are aware that there is room for growth, regardless of the strength of our current platform. We will work tirelessly to improve all aspects of our customer experience, which is every bit as important to us as the effort we put into our product.

You will no doubt continue to hear from the media about both DraftKings and the industry. It is our prerogative to keep driving that conversation ourselves. We will work to respond to your concerns in complete transparency and to inform you of the steps we are taking to inspire your full trust.

Please know how grateful we are for the passion and loyalty you have shown DraftKings throughout our history and especially over the past week. You remain our greatest priority.

Thank you,

Jason Robins, Matt Kalish & Paul Liberman
Co-Founders, DraftKings

Quote

10-09-2015 , 02:17 PM

#255

NerdSuperfly

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,172

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clevername69

I received this e-mail from Draftkings this morning

google translator gave me this

Spoiler:

Quote

10-09-2015 , 02:40 PM

#256

Natamus

Tripped and Fell

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 14,314

Ooo that was not only accurate it was complete with google translate grammar errors

Quote

10-09-2015 , 04:04 PM

#257

BadlyBeaten

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,300

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clevername69

... Given the pace of our growth, we felt that an audit was critical to ensure the security of our platform, so we hired an external law firm experienced with these issues to conduct a full review...
Thank you,

Jason Robins, Matt Kalish & Paul Liberman
Co-Founders, DraftKings[/b]

#1 These are people who don't know the difference between feelings and beliefs.
#2 A "full review" by a "law firm" couldn't possibly be bad for customers, right?

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10-09-2015 , 04:34 PM

#258

Lawnmower Man

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 5,752

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReliableSource

Sadly, the best way for 98% of us to make money from Draftkings is to quit and hopefully get a $50 check 2-4 years from now.

When you agreed to the ToS at Draftkings, you also (inadvertently) forfeited the right to join a class. Your method of recourse is to file for individual arbitration in the state of Massachussetts. Not to say that class action can't happen, but it sounds like an uphill battle:

http://www.atlredline.com/how-americ...-ac-1685906090

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10-09-2015 , 05:56 PM

#259

Dominic

Tripod

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 76,666

So I just want to know, if I'm playing DFS as a form of entertainment without doing much research, I should just flush my money down the toilet instead?

Quote

10-09-2015 , 06:42 PM

#260

mrmr

adept

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 885

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten

Wait, do you think there is a way to confirm that an entry was received before lock or after? Wait, do you think?

Why won't you just **** the **** off already? Not one message you've written itt has been well received, because you are apparently a ****ing jackass. We get that you are in law school or whatever, but nobody cares.

Quote

10-09-2015 , 07:23 PM

#261

Natamus

Tripped and Fell

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 14,314

Lol +1

Quote

10-09-2015 , 07:57 PM

#262

BadlyBeaten

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,300

No, I'm in common sense school. Or maybe it's sober school.

If no employee has any access to a lineup pre-lock, there will be no way for any employee to know if it was received pre-lock.

I get that it's OK for people to post stupid stuff. Why isn't it OK for people to post less stupid stupid stuff? Is more stupidity the object?

Quote

10-09-2015 , 08:02 PM

#263

LiveActionPro

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,735

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic

So I just want to know, if I'm playing DFS as a form of entertainment without doing much research, I should just flush my money down the toilet instead?

Yes dom, like most things in life if you don't prepare well for it, it will be flushed.

Quote

10-09-2015 , 09:00 PM

#264

Chippa58

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2,259

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic

So I just want to know, if I'm playing DFS as a form of entertainment without doing much research, I should just flush my money down the toilet instead?

It depends on how much much is. At minimum, you should probably have a feel for what teams are likely to score a lot in a given sport, and then try to draft players from those teams. Your team could still perform well and you can cash. Or you could go random and get lucky.

Poker is like one step forward, two steps back. DFS is more like five or ten steps back, But if you just want to check it out and play for fun, it is possible to cash even with minimal research. Its the long term proposition that's the problem.

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10-09-2015 , 09:07 PM

#265

ddlloo12

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 535

With the rake being almost unbeatable gets a lot tougher with this stuff going on

Quote

10-09-2015 , 10:10 PM

#266

THAY3R

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 36,550

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten

Why does an employee have to have access to a lineup pre-lock for an employee to know if an entry was received pre-lock?

There is not a single person who appreciates your posting

Quote

10-09-2015 , 10:33 PM

#267

Natamus

Tripped and Fell

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 14,314

It's all good Thayer no one in a forum full of math people and college grads that agrees with him so obv we are all ratards and he's the shunned genius

Quote

10-09-2015 , 11:12 PM

#268

Two SHAE

Decentralized Financier

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 2,242

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReliableSource

What if Draftkings says to MaxDulary, " OK Max, We'll let you spread 3k of action in our 12k mlb tournaments....but everyone is limited to 5 or 10 unique lineups. "

You think Max's ROI is still big enough to justify spreading that kind of action in MLB?

This is his edge! He's not some God at player selection (although he's very good). We're all targeting the same 5-10 pitchers on a given slate. He just hits on all the oddities because of his 100s of lineups and algorithms.

5 or 10 unique lineups. Let's see who's the "best" at picking players. I bet you Max would find something else to do with his money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReliableSource

Do you play MLB? You think he's going to flood 3k of action in a 12k mlb tournament with 1 lineup? Hell the **** no. Why do u think he has 100s of dif lineups on a nightly basis. If he's that good why can't he just use 1 or 2?

You clearly do not understand the definition of "edge" , and the reason to play 100 lineups 1x each instead of 1 or 2 100 or 50x each should be obvious to anyone that's graduated high school.

His edge is that he was smart/capable enough to write software to eliminate much of the work he would have to do if we still lived in the stone age.

Targeting 5-10 pitchers a night on DK:
5 pitchers -> 20 pitcher combos
10 pitchers -> 90 pitcher combos

Not to mention you still have to fill out the rest of the lineup. It multiplies very fast and the notion that you can "cover all your bases" is a joke. Try it at 25 cent games and report back to us.

I'll just give you the conclusion though -- he is really good.

Quote

10-09-2015 , 11:29 PM

#269

ShizzMoney

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,655

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddlloo12

With the rake being almost unbeatable gets a lot tougher with this stuff going on

What is the estimated rake on those sites?

Quote

10-09-2015 , 11:51 PM

#270

Chippa58

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2,259

For Draft Kings its commonly 10% at the lower levels. So a $1 ten player contest will have $9 in prize money...usually $5 for first $2.50 for second and $1.50 for third.

In heads up and 50/50's you bet $1 to win $1.80. So you'd have to win 60% of the time to get an 8% return on your investment. Win at a rate of 55% and you lose.

At higher levels the rake lessens....but you have to go quite a bit higher. At DK a heads up game with a $109 entry fee pays $200...so that's a rake of 8.25%.

Multi player tourneys for small $ usually have about 13% rake if they fill up. Sometimes there are overlays.

Quote

10-10-2015 , 12:13 AM

#271

Natamus

Tripped and Fell

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 14,314

Jebus! Good lord that's a lot of rake!

DFS companies need a bigger boat for all the rake manies

Quote

10-10-2015 , 12:40 AM

#272

CanadaPete

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 525

Quote:

Originally Posted by limon

there are easy ways to provide a platform where rec players win about as often as they win a sportsbet and get their "fair share" in gpps but volume would shrink 70% and the VCs wouldnt be able to flip these dogs. the investors are in a suicide pact to run these unsustainable models in the hope they wont be the last man holding the hot potato, the bigger fool. Or they can transition to full on sportsbetting before the businesses start to shrink.

Rec players do not want to feed anonymous "sharks" who might be "cheating" (zomg rigged) on a gambling platform that they dont really want but will accept in the absence of real sportsbetting. fantasy works because its social, laying anonymous gambling on top of it will be a temporary money grab, rec players will fade away from this fast, the less they win the faster.

In europe fantasy "soccer" has been huge for years and some of the shops have tried to roll out fantasy betting but no one cares. they can bet the games and people want to bet the games, its the nature of sports. People do not care about individual performances at the end of the day, if they did lebron would have won finals mvp in a unanimous vote. vegas has also tried to roll out player specific betting and its fallen flat.

online poker has the same problems, you can see it in the falloff in NJ. theres a big push at the beginning but once the rec players arent having their needs met they leave. the good regs feed on the bad regs for a while but the actual market for an anonymous version of social gambling games is small.

millennial types seem to be able to find adequate social interaction over a screen, if so these gaming platforms need to figure out how to make the ingame experience sufficiently social to keep the younger rec gambler around while he loses. what most people dont understand about the losing player is he isnt losing, he is paying for something. online "social" casino gaming currently does not give these players their monies worth.

These companies are some of the fastest growing around and the vcs are "flipping these companies" to ESPN and mlb. Not some dumb investors obviously.

The reason they have the money to run these huge advertising campaigns is because people enjoy the product. Although the algo guys dominate baseball and 50/50s average people have won big prizes on the site. Lots of people like me find putting in some lineups for Sunday more enjoyable than betting a game.

Obviously, the industry is not perfect. But the founders of these companies are worth about a billion more than limon.

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10-10-2015 , 01:29 AM

#273

limon

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 6,878

sick bump.

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10-10-2015 , 03:02 AM

#274

Natamus

Tripped and Fell

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 14,314

While DFS has grown into a nice little gambling sector the last 3 years, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the manies and rubles being bet on sports every week online. It's in the 10s of billions of $ annually vs. 10s of millions in DFS.

Don't get it confused because it's been popular in the US, DFS total dollars don't compare to sports betting total dollars.

Lots of people play DFS. Millions sports bet

Quote

10-10-2015 , 04:43 AM

#275

PasswordGotHacked

banned

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 2,913

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clevername69

Am I reading this right that they are banning employees from other sites playing on their site but not banning their employees from playing on other sites which seems to be one of the issues that bought this out in the open in the first place (the fact that one of their employees won 350k on an opposing site)?

It's all well and good for them to say that's up to other sites but how exactly would a site police this?