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New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox?

01-29-2010 , 01:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayth
I don't think he meant jealous of the guy, but jealous of the money he earned because you haven't earned as much and you see yourself as a better person whatsoever, you probably don't bumhunt and so on.... so you feel you'd deserve to win as much as he does at least...

If not, then drop the case?
I'm not out to get Lucid, for the record (though I'm not confusing him with anyone else), and it's not up to me whether he rips people or not. I also didn't post my reply to burn him. I meant it when I asked, "Why do you do this?" And I think he gave a legit, mature answer.
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 01:24 AM
It's still somewhat immature to just flame him in public all the time just because he doesn't like the guy..... has leatherass really done something wrong?
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfwax
This is Scott Brown, co author of Dusty’s book. He asked me to respond to this situation with Jason Ho and clarify his position for those who read his blog and had concerns.

Dusty worked with Jason Ho for one hour after hearing from several people that he was a math expert and was having success as a Stoxpoker.com coach. Dusty spent an hour with him on the phone and felt that he was a mediocre poker player based on his advice and ultimately found little to no value in his skills as a supposed mathematician.

While Dusty walked away unimpressed with Jason’s talents as a poker player based on talking about how one might play some of the poker situations they discussed, his advice was not so egregiously bad that he felt the need to call Taylor Caby and ask him (not that Dusty was even in a position to do so anyway as a mere Stoxpoker.com coach who had no decision making capabilities within the company) investigate Jason Ho. He simply walked away not sharing the same high regard for Jason Ho as many others did.

What Dusty meant in his blog about Jason “trying to scam him,” was that in retrospect he can see that Jason was trying to scam him. Jason asked Dusty to transfer him his entire poker database and offered to analyze it from a math perspective free of charge. Dusty felt that Jason may not have been a great poker player, but he did actually consider sending his database to Jason even after spending an hour on the phone together. He still was under the impression that Jason was excellent at math and may provide value to his game. The math side of poker is something Dusty has never focused on and thought that while Jason probably wasn’t a great poker player, it was certainly possible that Jason could be helpful to him from a math perspective. Ultimately he decided not to send him his entire database, but it was not because Dusty felt he was a fraud, but rather was having success with his own game and didn’t want to go down the road of picking apart his game through the lens of math.

Recently, Jason (who was someone Dusty only spoke with for one hour and one skype message when Jason asked for his database)) told him he had solved CAP PLO and offered to show him how he was playing and “crushing” those games. Dusty is committed to his no limit holdem game and declined Jason’s offer, but didn’t do so because he thought he would be getting scammed.

The main point I would like to make is that Dusty’s blog is being made out to sound like he thought he was getting scammed the entire time, but in reality he can only see in retrospect that he was getting scammed. Like every other victim of Jason’s, Dusty was completely shocked to learn about Jason’s elaborate scam.
Just a quick note. Whenever I meet someone who claims he's some sort of mathematician and I have my doubts, my question for them is "Can you tell me what a Group is?" Works every time.

MM
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cero_z
LD,

Why do you post all this stuff? It seems like at one point you were a good poker player who was just rude to your opponents at the tables and away from them. Now it seems like you spend a decent chunk of your time hating on people and accusing them of stuff. Leatherass is your special project, I guess, but you also recently posted some dirt about Kaintd--whatever his name is. I'm not going to take the time to dig through all your posts but I'm sure they're 90% negative. Leatherass annoys me, too, but what's the point of dragging him down?

If you're jealous of these people, then you know how to get the things they have that you want. You need to promote yourself, either through donkament success, a quick rise in stakes (gambling), or through connections with others who are signed to training sites (or whatever it is you want). Or, you could focus on posting helpful strategic advice. Either way, digging up **** (true or not) about people and crusading against successful players who have achieved a small measure of fame is not going to get you any closer.

If it's not jealousy, then why do you insist on dragging people down?
LucidDream loves to troll.
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayth
I don't think he meant jealous of the guy, but jealous of the money he earned because you haven't earned as much and you see yourself as a better person whatsoever, you probably don't bumhunt and so on.... so you feel you'd deserve to win as much as he does at least...

If not, then drop the case?
i dont think in any way that i deserve to win as much or more than LA. he has put in way more hours playing than i have and plays more tables. as many things as i dislike about LA the one thing about him i do respect is his work ethic. the guy puts in his work, period.

ive addressed it before so i will be fairly brief and im not going to address it again. i dislike LA because of how he handles himself in pretty much every etiquette related aspect of poker. i really dont have a problem with the bumhunting in general. its not something ppl are going to stop doing nor will i ever be able to make them. what i do have a problem w/ is the extreme LA takes it to. i wont list all the points of this, ive listed them before as have many other MSNL players. irockhoes made a great post proving pretty much all my points w/ hard evidence in another thread awhile back.

why would i drop it simply because im not jealous of him? i am trying to make other ppl, LA followers realize that what he is doing is not the way to go about things. it hurts the current state of the games and also the overall longevity of the game. every fish who leaves poker w/ a sour taste in their mouth because extreme bumhunters are sitting out when they do(i have seen multiple chats w/ fish accusing the ppl at the table of working together, cheating, etc) hurts poker overall.

this game used to be about providing entertainment for a fish so that he was happy to lose his money to u or at least didnt leave feeling cheated, just for the entertainment he received and the gamble. now ppl are so focused on never playing a hand of poker that doesnt have a fish in it that they are losing focus of the big picture. for every fish we lose to poker this way just makes the games tougher.

fwiw, if LA were to change his ways and start helping start games, not sit out when fish do, etc....i would be one of the first ppl to give him props. but as for now i disagree w/ how he conducts himself and am vocal about it in hopes that ppl will see how bad it is for poker and not do the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cero_z
I'm not out to get Lucid, for the record (though I'm not confusing him with anyone else), and it's not up to me whether he rips people or not. I also didn't post my reply to burn him. I meant it when I asked, "Why do you do this?" And I think he gave a legit, mature answer.
fwiw i dont think ur confusing my 2p2 name w/ someone else. i do think u are either confusing my ftp name w/ someone else or u are severely misinformed about how i conduct myself at the tbl w/ regards to etiquette/chat. the only chat u will really find of me berating someone is them sitting out when a fish does...as i said 99.9% of the time i dont even chat at the tbl.

care to explain what u were talking about in regards to that?
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 01:41 AM
Lucid is the man lol nice op
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 01:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurosh
LucidDream loves to troll.

dont be bitter i called u out on multiaccounting, then u said i had no proof, then i stepped forward w/ proof. we all know ur a multiaccount shortstacker so when it comes to conversations of ethics or etiquette ur opinion has ZERO value.
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 02:04 AM
Haha, I remember this guy from the STTF forum a few years back. He'd come up with a new mathematical formula or something that was better than ICM. He seemed FOS and when people called him out he called them scrubs and basicly left the forum for good.

Or such is my recollection (perhaps biased by this thread).

Interesting to know he also solved PLO cap games in his spare time.

When I read it was code654321 who was the scammer I was not very surprised, but I don't value my opinion all that highly.
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidDream
dont be bitter i called u out on multiaccounting, then u said i had no proof, then i stepped forward w/ proof. we all know ur a multiaccount shortstacker so when it comes to conversations of ethics or etiquette ur opinion has ZERO value.
MARK MY WORDS. I AM GOING TO PISS ALL OVER YOUR HEROES.
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 02:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurosh
MARK MY WORDS. I AM GOING TO PISS ALL OVER YOUR HEROES.
good troll. see u in the next ethics/etiquette discussion where u seem to always pop up to give ur 2 cents on the matter. the problem is ppl dont want the opinions of a cheater. btw hows that shortstacking bot coming along?
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 03:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Lagoon
Were Jason Ho "code7654321" or something like that?

His blogs at StoxPoker were quite psychotic!
Is there any chance someone archived these before they were taken down?
I never saw them.
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth
Just a quick note. Whenever I meet someone who claims he's some sort of mathematician and I have my doubts, my question for them is "Can you tell me what a Group is?" Works every time.

MM
wat?
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth
Just a quick note. Whenever I meet someone who claims he's some sort of mathematician and I have my doubts, my question for them is "Can you tell me what a Group is?" Works every time.

MM
Interestingly enough, that is my dork test
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpitt398
Interestingly enough, that is my dork test
LOL
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidDream
i do think u are either confusing my ftp name w/ someone else or u are severely misinformed about how i conduct myself at the tbl w/ regards to etiquette/chat. the only chat u will really find of me berating someone is them sitting out when a fish does...as i said 99.9% of the time i dont even chat at the tbl.

care to explain what u were talking about in regards to that?
I know who you are on ftp, the period I'm talking about is from when we played 400NL together well over a year ago, no I don't wish to sift through thousands of HHs and 2p2 posts to prove it. If you say you never do that now, I take you at your word. I was sorta just hoping you'd stop filling NVG with posts like your OP.
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 04:55 PM
How come this gets a thread of it's own in NVG, but the thread discussing the actual details get's moved to the coaching forum? Priorities are askew it seems.
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 05:48 PM
Cuz NVG ****s up the threads. It belongs in the coaching forum.
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 07:43 PM
Reading that Jason Ho stuff makes me sick. Not only am I WAY too honest/helpful to my students, my GOD am I a coaching fish. I felt bad about charging $80 an hour to FieryJustice back in 2006 after like 10 hours of lessons...

HTF can people live with themselves scamming people like that? I mean, agreeing to pay some of those outrageous coaching prices gets you into "you deserve what you got" territory, but seriously, how can anyone justify that crap without just being an outright thief?
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daliman
Reading that Jason Ho stuff makes me sick. Not only am I WAY too honest/helpful to my students, my GOD am I a coaching fish. I felt bad about charging $80 an hour to FieryJustice back in 2006 after like 10 hours of lessons...

HTF can people live with themselves scamming people like that? I mean, agreeing to pay some of those outrageous coaching prices gets you into "you deserve what you got" territory, but seriously, how can anyone justify that crap without just being an outright thief?
It seems his business model was: stealing other peoples money.
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Three Alls
Because of all the people at Stox Poker, the person who choose to highlight in blame is Leathe Ass, simply because he didn't understand how Ho could be such a huge winner.

What if Ho was 100% legit, and leatherass ran around telling every one he wasn't on the Up and Up. You'd be here making a thread about Leatherass calling him out with out proof.

Why isn't your post targested to all the people who profited from marketing Ho's videos/coaching without doing the proper research on his integrity. why aren't you making a thread about them.

And, +1 about ho's videos being unwatchable.
It is essentially him narrating lines he took while pulling hands up in hand replayer. Anyone can pluck hands out of database when the villain stacked off extremely light, or folded getting stupid odds, and make themselves look like a genius.
The Three Alls brings several great reasons for LA not bringing JH's antics to Stox management. To be honest, I think LA really had no clue, but when all of this came to light, he might have found it as a good opportunity to let the world know how smart he was, not realizing that his statements would be intrepeted like he knew JH was scamming people and did nothing. Could that be so far fetched? People in general like to act like they knew stuff like this was going on before it comes to light, after everyone finds out.

Like when the Bernie Madoff thing happened, how many respected people in the industry felt something was not right with his fund, AFTER THE FACT.
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rakemeplz
Haha, I remember this guy from the STTF forum a few years back. He'd come up with a new mathematical formula or something that was better than ICM. He seemed FOS and when people called him out he called them scrubs and basicly left the forum for good.

Or such is my recollection (perhaps biased by this thread).

Interesting to know he also solved PLO cap games in his spare time.

When I read it was code654321 who was the scammer I was not very surprised, but I don't value my opinion all that highly.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36...l-play-100383/

is the thread...read it and weap if you're trying to figure out WTF he is talking about.
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rakemeplz
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36...l-play-100383/

is the thread...read it and weap if you're trying to figure out WTF he is talking about.
wowowowowo

this is sooooooooooo gold.
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-30-2010 , 02:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth
Just a quick note. Whenever I meet someone who claims he's some sort of mathematician and I have my doubts, my question for them is "Can you tell me what a Group is?" Works every time.

MM
please elaborate?
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote
01-30-2010 , 02:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulletproof Monk
please elaborate?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_%28mathematics%29
New Leatherass blog: Suspected a Stox coach of scamming, DID NOTHING./Jason Ho a toolbox? Quote

      
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