I'm not a lawyer so I'm sure the legal minds will smash me on my opinions. But here goes.

The wording is very vague in number 2 which can work for and against.
Even if a player is paying a time rake of $13 an hour this is still linked to the actual gambling game.
If the dealer accepts tips, its because he is dealing a gambling game related to a person winning a pot so he makes money from the game as well as being paid by TCH

IMHO because the time rake is linked to actually playing x number of hours its linked to the gambling games.

If the club charged a flat fee per day to come into the club then this would be less linked to the game and has no connection to gambling.
It could be argued that the flat fee is payable to enter the club regardless if they gamble or not.

Any opinions on my thinking here?

Your scenario presumes innocent people are never prosecuted Let's say a prosecutor catches wind of the tournament I held at your house. Someone rats me out as the organizer and an investigator comes to my place to interrogate me. I admit to the investigator that I ran the game but tell him it was all your idea and that you have all the profits. The investigator then interrogates you and you deny any knowledge of the game but admit I gave you money after you returned from your trip. Do you believe we will not both be prosecuted?

Both the parking and house-sitting scenarios are edge cases btw. When we're done discussing those we should turn our attention to an actual poker club, where there is full awareness by the principals of gambling happening inside.

In that scenario the club's argument that their flat fee is unconnected to gambling would be challenged. Would answers could they give to the following questions posed to them?

1. Was there ever a period in which your club did not have poker games and if so, was your flat-fee the same and did you have a comparable number of patrons and employees?
2. What other services besides poker do you offer in exchange for the flat-fee consideration you receive?
3. What percentage of your patrons pay the flat fee but do not play poker?

This is a basic duck test and they would fail it.

OK, Lets assume you are 100% correct, with that reasoning wouldn't ALL card rooms in Texas be 100% illegal. Including the Lodge?

What is the legal counter argument that has lead people to set up card rooms and believe they are legal?

On an unrelated topic I live in Missouri and a new phenomenon that is happening here is local gas stations all over my area have installed slot machines.
These are 100% illegal but nobody does anything?
Its just bizarre. If I set up slot machines at my house and invited people to play I'm guessing I would get shut down in 5 minutes flat.

Yes, he's saying they are all illegal and all the attorneys involved in the opening of these rooms are idiots.

And they supply chips and cards and dealers and enforce house rules for the games. If they just supplied tables and chairs and let the players just come in and set up games they might have a case, but still a slim case.

But they are running everything, and for the purpose of making money. They have no case that they are not running a gambling establishment. Only a matter of time. Which sucks because I go to these rooms and love them.

They have these in rural towns in Texas. The local governments charge the places a certain amount per machine and look the other way.

Yes. Some district attorneys choose to prosecute, others don’t.

You mean the vast majority do not.

[QUOTE=TexasLexus;57517099] OK, assuming what you are saying is correct then Doug Polk said (paraphrasing) he was OK with buying into the Lodge because he would not have any legal hassles for at least 18 months because
of the period the legislative bodies meet to change the rules.

Is he mistaken that what they are doing "IS" illegal and they could be shut down at any time at the whim of a DA?

Going by the exact wording of the law it looks like any DA has a strong case. (not a legal opinion, just mine)

Also the fact that Doug Polk, Brad Owen and Andrew Neeme have some internet/real world fame, an example could be made of them by a DA looking to get some headlines?

Pretty sure this is not happening where I am seeing them as they are in lots of districts. Don't want to derail this thread but I think gambling legalities are interesting.

Do you remember when online poker sites were operating illegally in the USA for years in contravention to the gambling funding laws specified in UIGEA? People wondered back then how they were permitted to do so. The answer is they weren't. Don't conflate absence or delays in prosecution with self-evidence of legality.

Their attorneys are definitely not idiots - they're well compensated to advise their clients on what they want to hear.

Spot on. My attorney in friend in Dallas told me it is widely known that what these cardrooms have done is not legal and it wouldn't surprise him if they all get shut down all over the state in the near future. This TCH Dallas story is just the tip of the iceberg.

[QUOTE=Dreamer;57517165] Yeah the law is on the books now. Doesn’t have anything to do with Texas legislature meeting every two years for 140 days. Law enforcement can file charges based on law as it currently exists, but rarely do

Law may be ambiguously written, poorly worded, and internally inconsistent. The purpose of courts is to clarify and resolve contradictions in the law. Courts have not ruled one way or another on the law, and the AG has stated he does not intend to prosecute. So there is no reason to expect to see a statewide change to the implementation of policy. That may change in the future, developments unseen. Discussion over IMO.

Is this true? This is how attorneys operate?

How do you know he's not just telling you what you want to hear?

So the fact they are attempting to shutdown TCH isn't a development?

I would beg to differ.

I said “statewide”, IE a shutdown by orders from the top.

Dallas is different from Round Rock which is different from Austin.

It is entirely possible that Round Rock, which has a more conservative population, will shut down the Lodge but then all the Austin clubs (Shuffle, TCH, etc.) will remain open.

It remains to be seen. All I can say is to be wary of anyone who claims their interpretation of the state law is correct and they go on to make predictions about how judges (state/local attorneys) will interpret (seek to interpret) the law in the future.

Sometimes the best advice an attorney can give his client is not to pursue the course of action they sought their counsel about. But if the client insists...

I think this is a very reasonable position. In a previous post you said "IMO discussion over"
IMO this discussion is just starting and will continue to develop unless there is exacting legislative moves to fully legalize these card rooms.

I wish them the best of luck. Polk moving into Vlogging as well... must be a lucrative market for sure. This may be the new way to become a "rakeback reg"! Break even in your game, profit off the views and marketing.

a lot of ppl in this thread playing weird semantic games because they want to believe its true

nobody is claiming its illegal to run a genuine private club game where no rake is charged

what people are saying is that the way these poker clubs are structured is clearly outside what counts as a private club game with -

paid dealers working for more than tips

jackpot promos

raked tournaments

Yes, a lot of people want to believe it's true that the rooms are all acting illegally and the rest of us just put more credibility in the lawyers that advised these rooms over a bunch of nobodies on an internet forum.