[IMG][/IMG]



Someone ask about the New Orleans game cheating. This is an image of the card that was sent to me after one of the players confiscated a couple of the cards from the game that suspected foul play. It's an image of a copaq playing card that came from a deck in which the cards had a thin film layer of infared wavelength viewable backs. It was used in a 10 25 50NL game in which the cheaters were reported to have won around 300k in a couple a few weeks.

The cards were regular copaq playing cards that looked normal under visible light but when put under a certain wavelength of EM in infared spectrum the backs of the cards become viewable. These cards were ordered & special made, I heard around $3000 a deck.

This could obviously be used inside a casino as well as all camera systems are equipped with infared capabilities, many of the casino patents from companys like Bally, IGT, Shufflemaster & others describe many of these card recogniton methods in detail. Radio Frequency identification can also be used to identify cards.

I dont want to start this up in this thread, but what Fish & some others are referring to that I have mentioned is new technology (which is now patented by ARL, Bally & Cantor Gaming) decribes a system in which physical playing card decks indentical to the KEM cards being used now in casinos can be synthesized with certain type of molecules where the images of the cards can be changed from one card to another as viewable to us in the visible spectrum using certain wavelength & pattern of Electromagnetic Radiation. As far fetched as this will sound to most people, This technology does exist , is patented & I currently have one of the cards. I will not reply anymore about this inside of this thread as I would like to keep on subject. If the moderators would allow more talk on this I would continue it in another thread, but it seems that whenever I have mentioned this in the past , the thread is closed.

If this is true it should be really easy to verify, right?

http://www.google.com/patents

EDDtown, I will be coming from Boston. Let's agree on the logistics of the match first, and then we can pick a date. Here is my proposal:

- We will play a HU cash game (as opposed to freeze outs) in order to minimize the luck factor.

- We will sit with 250BB to start; the shorter stack will be required to rebuy to 250BB any time his stack drops below 150BB. This will also guarantee that we are always playing with effective stacks of at least 150BB, thus reducing the effects of luck and variance.

- We will play until one player wins a total of 40K or more from the other - superceded only if BOTH players agree to quit before that.

- I am happy playing in a casino. However, if you are not comfortable with that, you can arrange a venue and dealers that you like. The dealers must be professional dealers.

- We will both agree not to wear sunglasses or hooded sweatshirts.

Please let me know if you agree to these terms. Once you agree in principle, we can work out the logistics of when I will be coming down. I'm looking forward to it!

By the way, to the others in this thread, I just want to point out that EDDtown did in fact send me a private message with his phone number. I would like to hammer out the details of the match publicly here on 2p2 so that there is no chance that either of us can back out. However, I did want the other posters to know that he did send me a private message with his contact information as he said he would do earlier in the thread.

EDDtown, please let me know if you agree to my proposal. If you don't agree, please let me know what and how you would like to modify.

I like the idea of steady blinds & maintaining a minimum stack size, I just wonder if we should incorporate an upside stack size as well & remove some of the money in play at some level. The only reason I say this is that we could play a long time back & forth & reloading only in the end both of us end up super deep & stack the other in one lucky hand.


Although it isn't likely, theroretically we could both end up with close to 40k stacks & be even then win it all in one hand.

Also, what blinds do you suggest we play? Based on 150BB reload, It sounds like somewhere between 10/20 & 20/40NL. I would suggest it be a half sb/bb ratio rather than a 10/25NL since its a HU match

take on samoleus please really wanna see him run you over

Mr MIYAGI NO LIKE FIGHTING

this thread should be referenced as a case study in fooled by randomness

amazing. at this point im pretty sure its a level tbh, regardless of daliman's posts.

That's fine by me. Shall we say that if the shorter stack gets up to 400BB, we take money off to where we both have 250BB?

As to your other post, 10-20 or 20-40 are both fine by me. We can even split the difference and play 15-30. I'll let you decide.

how is samoleus to trust your venue/dealers when you think playing in a casino is bad?

I have to say, as this seems more and more likely to happen I'm surprised EDD is actually going to put his money where his mouth is.

Good for you, man. (my money's sitll on Samo though...guy's just too sick.)

Edit: But yeah, the whole "not in a casino, my dealers only" bit is a little weird...I think you should let Samo choose the dealer since this is your world and you're 20 times more likely to have the kind of connections with pro dealers that would allow you to get them to cheat.

Also, make it at least 500bb deep before taking money off the table, imo.

Could not say this any better.
Way too many posters itt seem to be ill-mannered adolescents.

That's funny, cause the exact same hand was played in the same way by Doyle Brunson.

Hey EDDTown, are you going to take FF's challenge as well? You know, sample size and all...

+1

the thing about the cards is completely true i expect, there is something very similar in the uk that has been used for tv games mtts and cash, a special camera reads the back of the cards allowing for the tv crew to do away with the hole card cameras ( pkr live 4 i believe was the 1st one, i was on the initial "tv table" (it never made tv but they made dvds and sent them to the players) also a recent sky poker(uk site) cash game involving a number of uk regulars and a few other games in between the two, im not sure at all how easy it is for any player to abuse this and i have no basis for argument for or against what gabe and dfish alluded to in new orleans, but i find it highly unlilkely the wsop allowed people to cheat a few people out of their money given how much they generate from the series in rake etc

Wow this actually might happen. Samoleus you are my hero.

As far as I'm concerned we can go together to the store & buy 10 decks of bee or bicycles & swap them in and out & I don't care if he brings his mother to deal. I can promise you if I turned down $65000 in free sponsorship money I wouldn't never cheat anyone.

I agree that it probably should be 500BB before money removed.

Samo, 15/30 sounds good

Props for going through with this.

Many players on both sides have mouthed off continuously over the years and even though I'm personally of the belief that a winning online player will dominate a winning live player at equivalent stakes, it's nice to see that you have the strenght of your convictions.

And yeah, +1 for 500bb. I'm sure Samo won't have a problem with it.

Surprised this is happening, and thrilled that it is.

Best of luck to both of you.

Wow. Never thought this would happen. Gabe, props to you for finally putting up. Good luck to both of you, but definitely need pics or videos of the match. Any way you can agree to put a camera, or have someone give us updates?

^ As a follow-up to the above question about cameras, if included, will there be a separate thread created for booking action? Is that allowed to be done in this thread?

definitely need this to be recorded.

One worry about such challenges is the outsized impact of big pots in such a small sample size. Fwiw, I think that when you are both all-in you should do an equity chop to minimize the impact of luck on results