I was just refused a payout at WSOP despite providing 2 forms of ID, & now we discuss taxes - Page 4 - Poker News

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I was just refused a payout at WSOP despite providing 2 forms of ID, & now we discuss taxes

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06-18-2016 , 09:11 PM

#76

turd dust

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 85

With the kind of money we are talking about, there is a big incentive for people to circumvent the rules. I wonder if there typically a lot of fake IDs from tax-treaty countries being used at the WSOP?

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06-19-2016 , 01:28 AM

#77

stinkypete

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerpetualCzech

I'll be able to prove my residency by the time I return so I'm sure I'll get it resolved. But the message to international players is clear: avoid playing in the WSOP unless you don't mind getting treated differently from US players and risking the offchance you might not get paid.

You tried to cheat the IRS by lying about your residence, got caught, and are butthurt now. I don't see how this is a reason not to play in the WSOP.

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06-19-2016 , 01:51 AM

#78

PerpetualCzech

adept

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 871

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkypete

You tried to cheat the IRS by lying about your residence, got caught, and are butthurt now. I don't see how this is a reason not to play in the WSOP.

It's actually tilt rather than butthurt but yeah, no reason to ignore deliberately misleading ID policies and a potential 30% vig applied by the most powerful institution in the world. What could possibly go wrong? Ya gots me.

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06-19-2016 , 01:55 AM

#79

ZOMG_RIGGED!

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 17,502

Quote:

doesn't mean they are being reasonable in doing so.

And this unreasonable thing they're doing is making you show your address on something with only months of advanced notice?

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06-19-2016 , 02:02 AM

#80

PerpetualCzech

adept

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 871

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED!

And this unreasonable thing they're doing is making you show your address on something with only months of advanced notice?

It's more like 2 years, but yes. It's also when they ask for that address that's the unreasonable part, not that they ask for it in the first place. Play more in every other country around the world and you'll understand what I mean.

Last edited by PerpetualCzech; 06-19-2016 at 02:08 AM.

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06-19-2016 , 02:49 AM

#81

Dominic

Tripod

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 75,373

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapouttazz9

WhT if your homeless ?

How many homeless people do you think are playing WSOP events this year?

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06-19-2016 , 02:59 AM

#82

ZOMG_RIGGED!

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 17,502

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic

How many homeless people do you think are playing WSOP events this year?

Depends how you define homeless. I'm know players who spend the year traveling and thus have no "home." I. moved to Vegas after Black Friday and cashed in a tourney while I was "homeless" because I was still looking for a place. I know someone who has been joking for months about being homeless while they play 80-160 who final tabled this year. There are probably more homeless people playing than you think.

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06-19-2016 , 09:23 AM

#83

PeteBlow

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,035

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerpetualCzech

It's actually tilt rather than butthurt but yeah, no reason to ignore deliberately misleading ID policies and a potential 30% vig applied by the most powerful institution in the world. What could possibly go wrong? Ya gots me.

Get over yourself.

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06-19-2016 , 12:19 PM

#84

DC2LV

veteran

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,187

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerpetualCzech

(Non-US citizen, non-US resident paying US taxes? WTF)

So you think that people should be able to travel to other countries, work and make money in those countries, but then not have to pay taxes in accordance with those countries' income tax laws if they are not a resident or citizen of that country?

Seriously?

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06-19-2016 , 12:30 PM

#85

davmcg

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,569

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC2LV

errr that's what virtually all the non-us elite do. Not paying taxes is the new black (economy).

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06-19-2016 , 12:41 PM

#86

bentonja

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,534

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapouttazz9

WhT if your homeless ?

Homeless Americans have address on their ID

ID is required to enter I assume?

Do they mail a check or something? Otherwise I don't see how it's an issue.

Also lots of homeless are on social security not all obv

Homeless foreigners, no idea how that would work

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06-19-2016 , 01:24 PM

#87

Koko the munkey

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,412

While I was standing in line, there was a flyer posted at the door to the payout cage that said either your address has to match your ID, or you must provide proof of address. I knew that my TR profile has a different address than my ID.

A bit about my situation - I don't have a permanent address. I live in my RV and do software consulting gigs remotely and play poker in my spare time.

So when I got up to the desk, I told her that the address on my ID is my current one. She looked at her screen, at my ID again, and back at me, and said, are you sure? Yup.

I got paid. They are like any other bureaucracy. All you have to do is tell them what they want to hear.

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06-19-2016 , 01:46 PM

#88

stinkypete

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerpetualCzech

You're playing WSOP events knowing full well that you owe 30% if you cash big. If you're not aware that the most powerful institution is going to rape you in this case, you're an idiot. If you don't want to pay the vig, you shouldn't be playing. If you know the rules and accept them, nothing will go wrong.

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06-19-2016 , 05:55 PM

#89

SanchoHH

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 535

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED!

Depends how you define homeless. I'm know players who spend the year traveling and thus have no "home."

Do these "homeless" people have bank accounts? If so, does the bank accept that they can't provide an address?

Do these "homeless" people also think that they don't owe taxes anywhere in the world because they "spend the year travelling"?

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06-19-2016 , 06:25 PM

#90

madlex

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,967

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC2LV

That's how the (tax) world works, at least between countries that have tax treaties. You pay taxes for your world income in your country of residence, no matter where in the world you made that money.

If you as a resident of the USA go to England and win an EPT, you pay taxes on your winnings in the US. Even though there's no taxes on gambling winnings in the UK.

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06-19-2016 , 06:31 PM

#91

restorativejustice

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2,753

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic

How many homeless people do you think are playing WSOP events this year?

"In five years, most of them."
-- P. Hellmuth

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06-20-2016 , 12:56 AM

#92

Koko the munkey

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanchoHH

Do these "homeless" people have bank accounts? If so, does the bank accept that they can't provide an address?

In my case, I opened my bank accounts when I lived at a real address. I switched to online statements as well.

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Do these "homeless" people also think that they don't owe taxes anywhere in the world because they "spend the year travelling"?

I pay my taxes. I can't speak for others.

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06-20-2016 , 01:03 AM

#93

SanchoHH

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 535

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koko the munkey

In my case, I opened my bank accounts when I lived at a real address. I switched to online statements as well

But then you could certainly use those online statements as proof of address in situations like WSOP payout.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koko the munkey

I pay my taxes. I can't speak for others.

Wouldn't some sort of tax document from the country where you pay your taxes also satisfy WSOP requirements, considering that this is all about tax liability?

(Just for clarity, I'm not talking about you specifically (or attacking you in any way), just saying that it seems very unlikely that someone, even when travelling or frequently moving, doesn't have *any* evidence of an address - unless they don't want to use those documents because it would lead to a less favourable result for tax purposes).

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06-20-2016 , 10:35 PM

#94

JYamada

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 263

This has been my nightmare all along...I'm Thai and I also currently live in Thailand, it really isnt that easy to get some kind of utility bill especially any kind of utility bill in English...do you guys think this will be a problem? its so ****** annoying whenever you go to the bank or to your phone service and have to explain to them why you need it..****** hassle..

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06-20-2016 , 10:43 PM

#95

Bobo Fett

Carpe Diem

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 57,426

Quote:

Originally Posted by JYamada

do you guys think this will be a problem?

You should probably read the thread.

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06-20-2016 , 11:26 PM

#96

LektorAJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 7,875

The thread suggests a passport and utility bill will be fine.

I don't see the bit where it's confirmed that utility bills written in King Ramkhamhaeng the Great's Thai alphabet are equally fine, but you're saying he should assume they are?

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06-21-2016 , 12:41 AM

#97

Bobo Fett

Carpe Diem

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 57,426

He mentioned that it isn't even easy to get a utility bill, so it seems he's asking if it will be a problem to have no proof of address, and if he doesn't know the answer to that yet, I would assume he hasn't read the thread.

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06-21-2016 , 01:00 AM

#98

metza

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 328

I always find it strange when halfwits who play poker themselves are fully in support of the IRS raping poker players. There should never be a tax on tournament winnings unless all tournament losers automatically get tax credit, treating it exactly the same as if a business makes a loss, or not taxing it at all.

Taxing profits and ignoring losses is f****d

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06-21-2016 , 01:14 AM

#99

Your Mom

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 13,503

no wonder we never see Alex Powers on tv any more.

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06-21-2016 , 07:49 PM

#100

BadlyBeaten

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,300

Quote:

Originally Posted by metza

Wow, I've been confused about this issue my whole life, but now I get it. If someone wins a tournament, he should pay a tax and then that money should be disbursed to the people who lost the tournament. I will write this up with some additional maths and hopefully get published.

And in case your sarcasm meter is broken, you DO get to deduct your losses, AGAINST YOUR WINS, just like EVERYONE else. You use your losses to bring your wins down to zero, but not below. Just like everyone else.

Last edited by BadlyBeaten; 06-21-2016 at 07:56 PM.

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