I think you have to play quite a lot just to keep up with the other good online players.

If he wanted to promote his staking arrangement but didn't want people to discuss it, a discussion forum was a really bad choice.

He should have taken out an ad or something.

You have completely avoided the issue. You gave an opinion

And I've asked you for the basis of that opinion. I am unaware of anybody who understands math that would think the results of 2 years of live tournaments is enough to be of much value. I'm going to have a more accurate assessment of your skill level after playing with you for a day or so than if I see all of your results for a year or two. So on what are you basing your opinion?

Besides which, except for the very smallest events played, all my results are publicly available on sites like Hendon Mob. And I've already answered the question about last year's results. So please, provide the reasonable basis for your opinion, or give it up.

Greg in fairness you have to know that a well known former champ is going to get more hate and bs than a normal thread just bc it will draw more attention and that it will also get more investors than someone of equal skill who doesn't have your notoriety.

Hi Greg, need the info:

Would You please post results of last package here:

How many games were played, what abi, what cashes you had.

How long did it take to bust the 100K roll, did You win at cash games ? What expenses are you going to include in expenses ?

Interested to buy a piece pending disclosure of these.

Yes, you are right, of course. Haters gonna hate, and all that. But that doesn't mean it still doesn't hurt.

But I still don't understand why so many folks don't understand the math of the package. They just say "oh no, that's 1.4 markup", and don't seem to understand why their statement makes no sense at all. Been trying to think of a good analogy, here's what I've got so far. Imagine somebody who will lend you money. He gives you the loan now for any amount, and you have to pay him back in full, plus $100 for each month it takes you to pay him back. If you were thinking of borrowing $100 from the guy, you could say to yourself, oh no, that's like 1200% annual interest, that's way too much. But if you were thinking of borrowing $100,000, you could say, what a bargain, that's only like 1.2% interest. So, since this lender is charging a flat fee instead of an actual interest rate, you can't compare it to an interest rate at all, unless you assume a specific loan amount. Similarly, you can't compare my package to a markup deal, unless you assume a specific result will be achieved.

According to this you had total payouts last year of around 45k for a net of 35k after subtracting buyins. This doesn't include all the tourneys you entered but didn't finish in the money.

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-play...esults/overall

You also played in the WSOP ME and didn't cash.

You also didn't cash in any of the events you were raising money for here:

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-play...esults/overall

That's another 85k in buy in.

So even if we assume you didn't play in any other tourneys all year, that's a net loss of 60k right there.

Again: simply tell us how your investors did in years past and prove me wrong. It doesn't get easier than that.

Mr. Raymer, in all seriousness, you have been a tremendous ambassador for the game, as well as an extremely nice person.

I think to get a better feel for your expectation, your arrangements with Stars and HPT at the time of score need to be known. Free rolling for an employer is not the same as playing for backers.

Whose wife wouldnt want their husband to get a free 100k

it's only a free 100k if he loses it

Skill is a floating data point with no scale. What matters is how skillful you are relative to your opponents. The net of that equation plus an allowance for luck (good and bad) is a measure of one's abilities. It's been 12 years since you won the ME - post a graph of that period and your investors will have objective data to judge the value of your staking package.

I really don't see a problem with him selling a package at a higher % as long as there are people willing to pay, why the hate for this guy using his name to get a good deal. His reputation is solid afaik. No need for hate.

His edge comes from scouting his table after he registers, then will unregister if the table looks too hard. Apparently this happened during the WSOPc Cherokee Main.

LolInvestorments

Not true, so many people who have had spotless reputations have been caught cheating and scamming people. Not saying Greg will but don't be so gullible in the poker/gambling world. There are countless examples of people with perfect REPs who end up rolling/scamming people.

What "hate"? Pointing out that something is a bad investment isn't a personal attack. I have nothing against him. Why would I?

I'm merely pointing out that his refusal to say how his investors have done in the past suggests they haven't done well. Heck, I'd gladly toss him some money if I thought I'd be getting a decent return.

One would think you created this account just to give me a hard time, except you did make one unrelated post before jumping on me.

I've already disclosed that last year we lost the bankroll of 71K, doing so a few weeks ago.

You obviously haven't ever played with me, and yet you feel it's your place to publicly state your opinion of my play. Somebody who you essentially know nothing about. That makes you either foolishly arrogant to think that your opinion is of any value, or just a douchebag. Which is it?

He must have been watching the hustler before posting. lol he wants 100k plus food vouchers.
All i can say is at least no one has yet to accuse him as being a scammer so that has to mean something. Cant wait to hear limon chime in.

Do you remember this back in the day.. Crazy days .. Did they ever find the guy?

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2007/0...unt-hacked.htm

I really don't see a problem with his previous results as long as he actually follows through and is honest with his results.

dude you have to be kidding, ofc if you win then investors will still win but the ev of the deal involves the fact that when you lose, investors obviously lose more, so my question is exactly why this deal is horrid and I guarantee you all buyers will just be random fans and fish who don't get poker. no solid 2p2 regs will be buying.

i am writing w my phone but I'm sure someone can easily post some math to show why your deal is unfair.

as for the second part, not true, point is you were between ok to good before compared to the fields before, and now you are likely weak to ok.
a lot of others kept ahead of the curve, continued to improve and played online to stay in the meta game. I gave you the benefit of the doubt for your intentions but this latest reply to what I said is just nonsense.

to those who think this is a decent buy, at least one credible and trustworthy player has made an offer to sell the same shares as Greg of gregs action at SIGNIFICANTLY lower price! think about what that means

[QUOTE=OMGClayDol;49018400]dude you have to be kidding, ofc if you win then investors will still win but the ev of the deal involves the fact that when you lose, investors obviously lose more, so my question is exactly why this deal is horrid and I guarantee you all buyers will just be random fans and fish who don't get poker. no solid 2p2 regs will be buying.

i am writing w my phone but I'm sure someone can easily post some math to show why your deal is unfair.

Sorry, but nobody has ever shown the math, not now, not last year, not ever. People like you glance at the deal, jump to a conclusion, and post your opinion that has nothing behind it.

Try some reading comprehension. I showed you how if my results are poor, then my deal is comparable to somebody selling at 0 markup, and if my results are average, it is comparable to somebody selling at a typical markup, and only if my results are exceptional do I do better than if I had sold at a typical markup. In other words, if I lose, my investors lose less, not more. Feel free to show us how that is unfair?

So we have another person, who has probably never played with me at any point in time, who thinks they know my skill level both now and 11 years ago. Genius! I guess since this is NVG I'm supposed to make the HU4Rollz challenge at this point? lol

Depends today a 10-15% roi is not worth bragging about. Hes like all the "pro" tournament players needing to supplement income inbetween droughts.

Lmfao only in 2016 is table selection considered a moral outrage. This thread is a joke.

Stay on topic with the staking package. Continued personal insults and discussing family matters will result in bans.