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Golden Nugget (AC) Is Suing Gamblers For <img .5 Mil Golden Nugget (AC) Is Suing Gamblers For <img .5 Mil
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08-20-2012 , 04:59 PM
#1
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Deadspin article: Casino Fails To Shuffle Cards, Sues Gamblers Who Won $1.5 Million

Cliffs: Golden Nugget (GN) bought cards from a manufacturer who is (supposedly) obligated to pre-shuffle them before boxing them. They weren't pre-shuffled, and Golden Nugget never checked them. They went into play, and said gamblers started noticing patterns, and took the house for a dime. GN is now suing the manufacturer and gamblers and claiming they shouldn't have to pay-up.
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08-20-2012 , 05:03 PM
#2
XaQ Morphy
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Well, at least the people who say the online shuffle is nothing like live have a point with this one...
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08-20-2012 , 05:05 PM
#3
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Depending on what deal the Nugget has with the company that provides the cards, seems that only they or the casino themselves can be liable for any of the losses.

Dealer/floor person/pit boss should have stopped the game sooner.

The guy who was held for 8 hours should sue the Nugget.
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08-20-2012 , 05:07 PM
#4
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I know next to nothing about whatever laws apply here, but it seems this is the casino's own fault. Sure, they thought the decks were preshuffled. But it wouldn't have taken much time or effort to double-check this before putting them into play.
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08-20-2012 , 05:11 PM
#5
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Also, if a mod can remove the "Stupid" from the title, that'd be awesome. In retrospect, I'm totally ignorant to the laws and arrangement between GN and card manufacturer and should've chosen a more objective title. Thx!
Last edited by ArcadianSky; 08-20-2012 at 05:17 PM.
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08-20-2012 , 05:13 PM
#6
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LOLtastic.

Suing the gamblers who were smart enough to take advantage of something your entire staff was too stupid to notice. Well played, Golden Nugget.

Stronger case against the card distributer, depending on the contract (I guess, but I'm not a lawyer so who the **** knows), but how thick does the dealer/floor have to be to not notice something like this going on? And then blame the players for essentially being smarter than them?

Frivolous lawsuits FTW.
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08-20-2012 , 05:20 PM
#7
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If the gaming regulations actually say what is in the article... "But in a lawsuit filed against the 14 gamblers in July, that is exactly what the casino seeks, citing state gambling regulations requiring all casino games to offer fair odds - to both sides."

Then, the casino actually has a good case against the gamblers.
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08-20-2012 , 05:22 PM
#8
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W/ 41 consecutive identical hands I can't see how the Nugget can prevail w/ any variation of 'we had no reason to believe.'

NJ law prob allows casino security a great deal of latitude but that player held in his room in that manner ought to get something.
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08-20-2012 , 05:28 PM
#9
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How in the hell were the cards not checked?

I haven't played table games much, but every time I have I've seen an ~15 min break when new decks come in and they are thoroughly counted and shuffled.

I supposed if you think they are pre shuffled that's somewhat of an excuse, but still seems really sloppy.
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08-20-2012 , 05:29 PM
#10
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How is this even possible? 41 consecutive hands? Are you telling me they used 41 different decks? If not then how come the cards weren't shuffled after each hand? I don't play mini baccarat but how can you deal 41 consecutive hands that are the exact same unless it's 41 different decks arranged identically?
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08-20-2012 , 05:30 PM
#11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob999
How is this even possible? 41 consecutive hands? Are you telling me they used 41 different decks? If not then how come the cards weren't shuffled after each hand? I don't play mini baccarat but how can you deal 41 consecutive hands that are the exact same unless it's 41 different decks arranged identically?
I've never played baccarat, but if it's only one deck I could suppose if the cards are dealt, and then taken in symmetrically each hand, and then somehow not shuffled, then you'd get the same result.

But again, I have almost no knowledge of how to play this game.
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08-20-2012 , 05:32 PM
#12
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I find it hard to believe that buying pre-shuffled cards is a valid excuse for not shuffling them yourself.
Why didn't you shuffle the cards before you dealt them?

They were pre-shuffled when we bought them. I did not want to disrupt the randomness.
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08-20-2012 , 05:33 PM
#13
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If a bunch of rent-a-cops tried to restrain me for 8 hours there would be a pile of dead rent-a-cops.
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08-20-2012 , 05:34 PM
#14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Get It
I've never played baccarat, but if it's only one deck I could suppose if the cards are dealt, and then taken in symmetrically each hand, and then somehow not shuffled, then you'd get the same result.

But again, I have almost no knowledge of how to play this game.

If that was the case then you would have the same result every hand no matter what...right?
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08-20-2012 , 05:35 PM
#15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenbar
If a bunch of rent-a-cops tried to restrain me for 8 hours there would be a pile of dead rent-a-cops.
I might have to hire you as my muscle one day. LOL
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08-20-2012 , 05:41 PM
#16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob999
How is this even possible? 41 consecutive hands? Are you telling me they used 41 different decks? If not then how come the cards weren't shuffled after each hand? I don't play mini baccarat but how can you deal 41 consecutive hands that are the exact same unless it's 41 different decks arranged identically?
It's a multi-deck shoe, either 6 or 8 decks. Since the article says 'same sequence' the card company, in their attempt to send shuffled cards, did a really lol job and sequenced the cards similarly in each deck which the Nugget must've stacked on top of each other. 41 hands would use what, ~4 decks give or take? Then some Nugget genius must've come off the crack pipe and stopped the game.
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08-20-2012 , 05:44 PM
#17
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I really hate casino companies. What a bunch of ****in hypocrites...

You make a mistake which costs you money- it's your problem
You're in a game which is -EV for you - it's your problem
Casino makes a mistake which costs them money- player gets sued
They are in a game which is -EV for them (counting cards) - player gets banned, or worse
Last edited by SGT RJ; 08-20-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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08-20-2012 , 05:50 PM
#18
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Wow, this never would have happened if Robert De Niro was running the Nugget.
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08-20-2012 , 05:50 PM
#19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForFish
If the gaming regulations actually say what is in the article... "But in a lawsuit filed against the 14 gamblers in July, that is exactly what the casino seeks, citing state gambling regulations requiring all casino games to offer fair odds - to both sides."

Then, the casino actually has a good case against the gamblers.
Using that logic, every person who has ever gambled in a casino (win or lose) could file a suit against the casino.
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08-20-2012 , 05:51 PM
#20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Beale
It's a multi-deck shoe, either 6 or 8 decks. Since the article says 'same sequence' the card company, in their attempt to send shuffled cards, did a really lol job and sequenced the cards similarly in each deck which the Nugget must've stacked on top of each other. 41 hands would use what, ~4 decks give or take? Then some Nugget genius must've come off the crack pipe and stopped the game.

yeah I started to make sense of it before your post but if there were 14 players you would figure on average (dealer makes 15) you would use about 38-40 cards of the shoe so then the next hand you would start at card 41and go into the next deck. Getting 14 players to all notice this and take advantage is not going to happen. The article makes it out like all 14 players kept increasing their bets every hand and were undefeated. I have a feeling the Brooklyn guy whose room they went to was by far the big winner and there were probably a few stooges out of the 14 that broke even or even lost while never even noticing.
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08-20-2012 , 05:56 PM
#21
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I would counter-sue for being falsely arrested for 8 hours.
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08-20-2012 , 06:03 PM
#22
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this is possibly the stupidest thing iv ever heard !!
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08-20-2012 , 06:05 PM
#23
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The 1.5M should be a punishment for the GN for being utterly ******ed.
Last edited by nismo9; 08-20-2012 at 06:06 PM. Reason: i hope mr. brooklyn got an apology
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08-20-2012 , 06:07 PM
#24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazeWithMe
I would counter-sue for being falsely arrested for 8 hours.
Where are you going to file the case?

The authorities are often in cahoots with the casinos and a local jury will be composed of people who live, directly or indirectly, off the gaming industry.

A friend a mine was similarly detained in Las Vegas simply for playing video poker in a situation where the players' club benefits made playing a certain machine +EV.

He sued, the case was dragged out for six years, and eventually he got nothing.
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08-20-2012 , 06:08 PM
#25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VP$IP
I find it hard to believe that buying pre-shuffled cards is a valid excuse for not shuffling them yourself.
Why didn't you shuffle the cards before you dealt them?

They were pre-shuffled when we bought them. I did not want to disrupt the randomness.
Perfect.
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