They will pay back the ROW as well, however it will probably be strucured in such a way to stop a "run on the bank" and I would think new management will have some pretty sick promotions once they open back up to make it very rewarding for the ROW to play on FTP.

I don't think the Subject: Poker author(s) think he/they implied anything about criminal charges being dropped as part to the deal with Tapie.

While I agree that Bitar will try to negotiate a deal which drops criminal charges against him, I think the track record shows that the DoJ will not be satisified without a guilty plea and some substantial penalty. It is possible that the DoJ might agree to no (or token) jail time in a plea bargain, but given that the FTP offences are significantly worse than those of Party Poker, or PayPal or even PokerStars, I'm not so sure that Ray will be successful. What Ray has going for him is that the criminal charges filed AORN are no worse than those faced by Scheinberg and the AP/UB principals. The possibility of further criminal charges to cover the offences unique to the FTP case are what the DoJ can use to overmatch any resistance Bitar might put up to a civil suit settlement that doesn't also immunize him from incarceration.

The problem with this argument is it assumes that Bitar is in the same (lobster fishing) boat as the other FTP Directors. He isn't. Right now he's adrift on his own.

I think you ascribe more leverage to Bitar than he actually has. I don't think he can prevent the taking of a vote by shareholders/partners. He doesn't have enough votes to block a deal. While Bitar, Lederer and Ferguson have enough votes between them to block a deal, Lederer and Ferguson have not been charged criminally, and have different legal council. We don't know that they will act as a block. I think it likely that the DoJ will be trying to work with each of them separately. The failure of the DoJ to lay criminal charges WRT the improper dividend payments may point to the possibility that Lederer and Ferguson (and probably Bitar) will be offered a deal where they avoid criminal prosecution on those offences in return to an early civil settlement. I don't see any reason why Bitar would be able to block such a deal if his other criminal charges are not also settled.

While avoidance of jail time will be a clear goal for all those involved, it may not be an available part of any deal the DoJ would agree to WRT those charges that have already been laid.

The Bitar memo referred to a deal to which Bitar and FTP were not parties. I think your theory about avoidance of a vote would be a lot more plausible if Lederer and Ferguson faced the same criminal charges as Bitar. It will be a lot easier to achieve a deal where the DoJ agrees not to criminally prosecute Lederer and Ferguson than it will be to get a deal that waives punishment for Bitar.

I'm going to agree with you to the extent that I think any deals that are eventually reached will cover both the criminal charges and the civil suit, and that the amount of money and jail tme will be significantly less than the billions being sought or the maxinmum sentences possible. However I am not absolutely certain that settlement of the civil case will be delayed until the existing criminal case is settled. Players awaiting refunds would probably prefer to see a civil suit settlement go ahead sooner, and that is what the various press releases have pointed to.

If a civil case settlement does not come through, then criminal charges against Lederer, Ferguson and Furst, and additional charges against Bitar, are possible. In this regard, I think the DoJ has a bigger lever to get an early, separate civil suit settlement than Bitar has to tie a favorable plea bargain on the criminal charges to a civil suit settlement.

The easiest way to avoid incarceration is to avoid criminal charges. Therefore Lederer and Fergusson have an incentive to reach a civil suit deal independent of the existing criminal charges. Perhaps there is honor among theives, and those two will refuse any deal which doesn't also protect Bitar, but I'd believe that fairy story a lot more if they all had the same lawyers. I think that a deal on a civil suit will probably result in no criminal charges for Lederer, Ferguson and Furst. I don't think that a civil settlement means an automatic get-out-of-jail card for Bitar.

You're going to need to do better than that.

The 15 days was an estimate (by one party) of how long it would take to finalize a deal between the DoJ and GBT. It was an estimate and not a deadline. As others have pointed out, the 15 days will be up on Wednesday.

Also, any vote taken would be by partners/shareholdes in FTP, and that would only be on a deal between FTP and some other party. FTP was not a party to the deal to which the 15 day estimate applied. Therefore there is no reason to believe that FTP will be voting on anything in the next day or two.

It is unlikely that GBT can finalize a deal with FTP until a settlement has been reached between the DoJ and FTP. A deal between the DoJ and FTP may be contingent on deals between the DoJ and individual major shareholders facing criminal charges and/or civil claims brought by the DoJ. Nothing has been published (AFAIK) about timelines for all these other negotiations except the DoJ's statement to the effect that it would take many months to settle any case that went to court.

It is reasonable to believe that all these various deals are being discussed concurrently, but there is no way for us to tell if they are hours or years away from settlement.

just over $1,000 but if i don't get it back WHY???? would I dare deposit more on their site?

same here if the $$$$$$$4K i have on there and the $$$$$$$$$5K limbo deposit i also would never re deposit but if i get all my $$$$$$$ back and can play str8v away without penalties i will be tearin up that blue felt

whats the latest on this whole situation? last I heard was that ftp was going to give money to doj to give to us players and that was that.

Shockingly enough, there are a few details that they still need to work out before anything like that happens.

oh i didn't know that. have any of the details surfaced?

no news = good news

Ifrah this morning: "hopes" for an update soon (my interpretation of soon would probably be by the end of the week) and said everything has been moving along positively.

That is not quite accurate. What was reported is that GBT was going to make a payment to the DoJ towards a settlement of the DoJ's civil suit against FTP. The DoJ was going to be responsible for paying US players (and were setting up a fund for this purpose) while GBT would become responsible for paying ROW players. We don't know that the US players will be paid out of the money from GBT. We don't know whether the "fund" will come from assets already seized and subject to forfeiture, from money yet to be seized related to the improper dividend payments, from money paid in as part of a settlement, and/or something else. We don't even know whether players will actually be paid in full, or at all.

The latest news is that the lawyers are continuing to put in billable hours.

What's the going rate for attorneys in these kinds of cases? It has to be $500.00 an hour minimum doesn't it? Minimum eight billable hours a day, probably more? That's $80,000.00 a month. Not too shabby. What was I thinking trying to make a living as a poker player?

Don't forget quality lawyers get paid whether they win or lose too

Sounds reasonable.

100% utilization and you straight get your billable hourly.

I'll take the 30 hours a week, $5k a month poker gig.

Err, maybe for the partners. Don't forget the 10+ years of bitch work pulling 80 hour weeks at a big firm while you make a pittance of what you earned for the firm. And the six figure student loans

Killjoy!

Wow 0% huh? You must be all-knowing and all-seeing to know that there is 0% chance of something happening, regarding an issue which you have 0% involvement in , and therefore have no way of KNOWING there is 0% chance of that event occuring. In other words, your opinion means 0%.

Sounds like any -average- poker player who speaks in terms of "knowing" what another player's hole cards are. You can guess, range, estimate, but you dont "know", and you sure as jack dont know 100% what someone holds.



Dothemath, you basically agreed with what i've been trying to say, that cooperation will be met with leniency from the DOJ, maybe for Bitar, maybe for Ferg / Led, we just dont know who and to what extent yet. We do know that everyone wants to avoid prison, and that clearly Led / Ferg / Bitar / etc still have cards to play in this game.

So... in much less words than you used to agree with me, thanks.



And one last time for those who DONT understand... If you were the thieving type, and you committed a crime on the scale Bitar has and faced the time in prison he is likely facing, would you cooperate with ANYTHING the people threatening to put you in prison told you to do - if they did not offer to at least lighten your potential sentence?

I would never steal as they have, but if I did in some parallel universe commit the same acts, I can promise you one thing, if I wasn't given some "outs" I would consider myself "crime-committed" to the pot, and just go all-in (run from the law, be a fugitive living in some non-extradition country with my stolen manies), its the only way for Bitar to win IF he's not being offered leniency at the least for his cooperation. Come on folks, common sense here. Criminals aren't going to help anyone unless in the process they help themselves.

Not saying they won't do a deal - just a criminal deal won't be part of a company deal....is this really that hard for you to understand?....guess you don't get much busniess experience from ya ma's basement. Do you finish your McD's shift the same time each day?

Do you think shareholders want the value of their shares affected by keeping RB out of jail??

Do you think the DoJ will let the value of US players deposits be affected by keeping RB out of jail??

Do you think GBT will pay more for FTP in order to keep RB out of jail?

1st news?
http://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/wo...Flavour_53711/

but it does not says a lot

The insults were unecessary. I believe theres a strict mod enforced policy of maturity and grown-ups-only conversations here.

No, I dont get much business experience from my ma's basement. Yes I finish my McD's shift the same time each day, but I usually stay late because I really have no where else to go except back to Ma's Basement.


This "pondlife" has made it clear many times now that its common sense that criminals who still hold some power will use their power for their own benefit. That means getting themselves out of criminal trouble.

I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about that, or why you are in denial (not just a river in africa, apparently)


My whole reason for even bringing up this side (importance of restitution vs importance of criminal charges / justice) of the debate was that some people seem so absolutely blinded by rage that they can't comprehend anything beyond their anger.

I'll count you as one of those blinded by hatred and anger, Sith Lord Vamoose of the Pond.



How do shareholders' shares lose value because Ray Bitar stays out of jail? How does US player deposits lose value because Ray Bitar stays out of Jail? They aren't affected in either case. New and returning players aren't going to avoid FTP if RB is out of jail, they're only going to avoid FTP if they 1. Have decided they hate FTP forever 2. They dont get all their money back - or they dont get the % they feel they are reasonably owed and they do not receive it in the time frame they feel is reasonable or 3. RB and others remain shareholders or worse they somehow remain shot-callers at the new FTP. Ray Bitar simply staying out of jail DOES NOT affect share value.

You gotta use your brain Mr. Vamoose, your "cérebro", ok? jajajajajja?

Oh and yes, if GBT has to pay "extra" in order to get Ray's cooperation sooner (saving them money in the long-run), then they will pay what you view as "extra". Sigh... GBT will do whatever it must to succeed and profit, what you view as an unprofitable move might be the profitable move from their perspective, NEITHER of us really knows at this point what the deals entail.

But only one of us is making ABSOLUTE statements of 0%/100%. Thanks for debating like a big boy. Obrigado

Good, I'm glad you agree with me.

Nothing new about this, nor is there anything out of the ordinary in it. AFAIK, the waiver is simply to acknowledge that the person knows of the complaint against him. It simply saves the time and expense of hiring an actual process server to deliver the notice in person, (in some countries there are specific steps to be followed for this, so it could take more time/$)

The time a person has to be answer the complaint starts at the time of service (I think).

Not sure why the article says the waiver saves ppl from appearing in court, because it doesn't. There is no "arraignment" or reading of charges in a civil complaint, the service is enough, whether its waived or not. Whether you decide to appear or not, if a trial actually takes place, is not something you decide now.

My usual disclaimer: I am not an attorney, so keep in mind, I could always be delusional about such things.

This after what I ninja edited out of your post yesterday. Stop instigating, you're one of the primary perpetrators when it comes to derailing into insults.

Stop talking about working at McDonald's or I am going to have to go back to temp ban on sight and frankly it's a lot of work and makes me ****ing cranky.

lol how in the world did mcdonalds get in this thread?