So what entity has finally tracked all this money down and taken control or frozen it?

2 things. People who had their rolls stolen are probably not the best judges of character and motivations when it comes to possible other parties.

You would have no choice to keep the money. As it is the could charge you as N accessory after the fact. People are not able to keep stolen goods just because they did not know about it being stolen.

If you buy or are given stolen merchandise or cash they can and will take it and you are entitled to no compensation. Your only course of action would be to go after whomever sold or gave you the items or cash.

Your arguments are old and the rhetoric you continually employ is tiring, demet.

I'm not going to engage in debates with you. It's clear that you're not an objective analyst anymore... you continually argue in absolutes and you're no longer a fruitful source of insight, or inspiration.

This point is simply shortsighted.

Tapie is the last line of defense from bankruptcy, this is fairly clear and something I think we all can agree with. Given this, every day that Tapie is engaged with DOJ should be viewed as neutral at worst-- not a decrease in value, or likelihood, of FTP's worth. The moment Tapie withdraws, FTP is dead in the water in terms of possible investment.

FTP is effectively already bankrupt. There is no more money in it's accounts to repay players, there's nothing for us left to lose. We know this because through SP and DOJ, that they had 5 million left after they got the international side running again before the license revoke. I would argue that we're closer to a freeroll here with Tapie than we are to "everyday that there isn't good news we're closer to bankruptcy"

What exactly is there to conserve? recover? Nothing. FTP will be in rem until the DOJ says so. DOJ has seized (if you believe Ifrah) the majority of Bitar's assets.

Is this serious? You write as if Bitar et. al embezzled. This is simply not the case. There is no more money.

Please clarify your position

People who stole your money have had six months to spend it and further hide it. Do you really think this third party pipe dream is more likely than if the players went after the money right after bf?

At least there was a chance then to track down some of the money. Now people seemingly think their only chance is for some convicted felon French angel might make everyone whole because he is a nice guy.

Lol wat? Where do you think the player deposits are?

Is it your position that hundreds of millions of dollars were not stolen here? Where do you think the money went? No wonder some of you are optimistic you don't even know what happened

please educate yourself as to the facts of this case.

you simply don't know what you're talking about.

Lol. I know all about the case. Why did you not answer my questions? Where do YOU think all the player deposits went?

I believe this.

Please stop making a fool of yourself. I mean this sincerely.

+1

I don't see the involvement of DOJ as a negative in this matter but a positive. While some seized funds will be taken for administrative expenses, most are likely to be returned to players. Also, only DOJ has the big hammer of criminal prosecution to use to persuade owners, and other responsible decision makers, to give up all, or almost all, of their personal assets in exchange for not being prosecuted criminally.
Of course, it can be argued that without DOJ's involvement, the party might still be going on; however, it is clear that, without a solution to the deposit problem, it was headed to some bad end and that no solution strategy was in sight.

I feel like Dorothy from the Wizard of OZ clicking my ruby slippers together.

I believe we will get back home.

I feel that it is highly probable. It is not a certainty, LDO.

I know nothing other than reading virtually every post ITT as well as other good sources. I thank you all. Although I obviously have thought about this logically and consciously, that is not how I have come to this belief. All this information is also in my subconscious. I have learned that it knows much more then the tip of the iceberg which is consciousness.

There are obviously many details and motivations which cannot be directly known. They are represented in the knowledge, experience and perspectives of others. Taking in all of that, I feel as I do.

Disclaimer: I came to this at the same time that the Frogs no longer were disturbing to me.

Tapie could argue that's what the individual penalties are for, if Bitar and the boys go to jail and/or lose everything they own, the idea of violating the UIGEA doesn't sound so tempting.

The DOJ went after the decision maker in the PP case, PP was essentially volunteering to pay a fine just to show investors that the company was in no danger of further prosecution.

That's pretty similar to Tapie's situation, and it's not like the company has huge asset value for DOJ to auction. I could see them agreeing to $30M per year for a few years rather than just $30M for selling the software.

Personally I believe that's how it should work anyway, "Full Tilt" didn't do anything wrong, the people that ran the company did.

You didn't happen to lick the frogs before writing this did you?

If and when any player money is refunded to the players then yes we are chronologically closer to that date than BF,

However aside from timewise the players getting their money back is no more likely now than it was 6 months ago and I restate that it is less likely as any deal of Tapie's is going to be a distant relation to all players getting their money back in full. You can see it form comments made by him and his lawyers if any of them are to be believed.

No doubt when Tapie disappears into the ether a new saviour shall emerge and you shall be harlding him as being even more likely than all the previous potential investors.

The other thing you are right about (apart for the trivail time i=wse statement you made) is that it is impossible for me to have a discussion with you as you cannot rationalize anything thathas been placed before you.

But please console yourself that there are a few others ITT that delude themselves just like you.

I think you are the delusional one that cannot see the wood from the trees.

I see exoendo keeps referring to me (via subqotes when others respond) but I am unable to defend myself as I dont know what he has written as I have had him on ignore for a while now.

All I will say to him and others is that if they dont like what I say then have the decency not to refer to me and place me on ignore.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with my reasoning and powers of deduction and I dont really feel like eductaing those that are intellectually so challenged that they cannot comprehend basic facts as presented before their very own eyes.

I keep asking this question but have yet to receive a decent answer or explanations as to why the end of the rainbow is about to be reached along with that pot containing all of the players funds.

Why is the Tapie deal more likely than previous deals to succeed?

Why do people think Tapie's deal is the only serious one that has taken place to date?

Why do people think Tapie is going to cut a deal that repays all players in full so they can withdraw everything as and when any new FTP opens wheb from all that has been said by him and his lawyers suggests he's trying to find a way that doesnt pay all players all their money?

Does anyone think players can get their funds back without the FTP shareholders returning a large proportion of the dividend money they received pre BF?

Sorry didn't really mean to offend you, I just think you kinda cartoonized yourself in the last weeks by constantly repeating the same pessimistic view in a sort of masochistic way that's both annoying, scary as entertaining

For what's its worth: I have more money on the line here than 99% of other posters, and because of that I'm refreshing this topic, reading everybodys bs, hourly for over 3 months now. (and as you can imagine getting really tired doing so - so please forgive me this worthless post i've earned it)

I don't really want to bother anyone with my opinion, cause it's an opinion and with me lacking the needed information it's about as worthless as yours.

I just want it to be over so I can finally say goodbye to this stupid topic

Well dont derail th e topic then

I am behaving myself and trying not to get dragged off topic and limiting my posts (or have done over the past few days) so lets try and keep it on topic.

Alas there has been little or no information made public from official sources since BF which is totally unacceptable but I storngly suspect that there will be some kind of finality to all this pretty soon when it becomes evident that Tapie is walking away from current talks or he manages to put a deal together where he contributes little financially but manages to extract the player funds from others who will end up paying them. My repeated assertions, however, are that those other sources for player refunds should be exploited from now rather than waiting forever and a day as that refund pool becomes ever smaller with the passing of time.

I hope for everyones sakes that money is found to pay all the players sooner rather than later but cant help but feel that these current negotiations arent going to end to everyones liking and satisfaction and will be followed by yet another allegedly even more serious and more likely saviour who will replace this one.

NO doubt we will hear more in the next 10 days as this deafening silence cannot continue for much longer.

Yo HDemet, I'm willing to bet $500 - $1k with you that players are getting paid (let's say 'til end of 2012) 1:1.

If you accept tho you have to agree to stop posting in this thread and any other related to any deal with FTP.

We'd need escrow.

Deal?

I like how hdemet's idea of 'limiting' his posts is posting FOUR straight posts before a single other person replies (10877-80). He has also contributed 13 of the 80 posts I have on this page.

I am getting more and more convinced there is something totally shady about hdemet. I think he should be viewed highly skeptically and I think he is a bad person with bad intentions here. No other explanation could logically explain why he is posting 10x more than anyone else and just spewing the same thing over and over and over 600 times. I think the mods should start moderating him. I am sure there are people who do benefit from the failure of FTP, and they have that right, but they are absolute scum if they actually are pushing for it to happen in an underhanded manner.

As to your bet, gl getting a response.

I don't think he's shady or has ulterior motives but I do think he's an irritating idiot. Can mods at least merge his double/triple/quadruple posts into one please?

You're right, the law doesn't support that. Shareholders can never be forced to return dividend paid, if paid out unjustly or fraudulently, the company is liable for paying it, not the shareholders for receiving it. If a decision making person in the company pays himself fraudulently then of course he can be prosecuted for it, from the company side. Those smaller shareholders that are not decisionmakers have nothing to fear, they can just keep the money they received because there is nothing that can force them.

The only person that looks good in this is Ferguson, who apparently was entitled to 50 million and postponed receiving it to relieve his company's shortage on funds. Lederer/Bitar could have done the same, but they just took everything they were paid out, ruining their own company in the process.

Why Insidemanpokerman has this obsession with me I do not know but he's been on ignore for quite a while now and like the others I can see what he has written only if others quote him.

However as he seems to be making false accusations about me perhaps he would care to present his evidence against me and private mesage me whilst I report him to the mods as he constantly wants to derail the thread.

I dont want to have to start a flame war but I will always reserve the right to defend myslef but for whatver reason he just wants to continue down this line of unsubstantiated garbage and derail the thread.

As I have mentioned a zillion tiems before if you dont like what i have to say put me on ignore as I have those that contribute nothing at all to this thread becasue if you dont see what I have written it cant infuriate you.

In any case I thought he promised to put me on ignore a few weeks back but he's obviously a complete hypocrit and liar.

For the record those on my ignore list are:

Arezh
Avoidme
BBFG
Exoendo
gabbkk
genher
insidemanpoker
jrryjrryjin
Needstobesaid
pabito21
whirleydervish

If any of these people feel the need to develop their obsession with me then do it via PM and not by derailing the thread by making unilateral public attacks on me whcih have nothing at all to do with this thread and FTP

First to your accusations of being a liar and a hypocrite. It's very fun to catch idiots like yourself in BS:



As to the evidence, I told everyone my evidence. You post non stop 10x more than anyone else despite having nothing at all to add whatsoever. You just keep hammering your negative opinion relentlessly and it's gotten worthless to everyone and I suspect even worse motivations. It isn't 100% sure, and I never said it was, but it is my suspicion for good reason. I used to lump you and ledason together, but that is a mistake. There is a chance he had bad motives, but I think it is less likely and he is just someone who strangely enjoys this kind of stuff. He does, at least, put in real work and research and contributes with his posts rather than being a bad robot who just says the same crap over and over.

As to the idea that it is a derail, you are off your rocker. I get it, you are new here, but you are completely clueless. You are posting endlessly here. You are like 10% of the posts on every page. You deserve to be slammed for your spamming. Saying the same thing 500 different times is derailing no matter how much those 500 posts pertain to the topic at hand.


Just out of curiosity, a question to everyone else. If there are in fact people posting here with hidden agendas, what do you suppose the most likely reasons are for them doing so? Diamond had an okay theory, but hdemet sure seems to be going to a lot of effort if bitterness was the only reason. I think there has to be a financial reason if people have ulterior motives.

This is 100% wrong. Of course people can be punished for receiving stolen money and required to return it.