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FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP) FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)
View Poll Results: Do you want the AGCC to regulate the new FTP?
Yes
1,156 56.58%
No
887 43.42%

07-14-2012 , 09:29 AM
^^ well said joey.
(Never thought i'd say that)
07-14-2012 , 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antneye
DF, pretty sure you are a NY'er from your posts and your ability to be in the thick of things. As a fellow NY'er I will gladly buy you lunch any time you say. Thanks for all of your efforts.
Be careful, I received a temp-ban for a comment like this. Especially when you talk to DF. She is protected.
07-14-2012 , 10:03 AM


I'm pretty sure DF stated her geographic background in a podcast interview.

----
I ran across this quote from a candidate for public office.

Just struck me as a solid template for HL, CF, etc. to use. Not trying to get into political debates (avoiding the truth or falsity of the statement), just found it funny.

"[Redacted] insisted that he abandoned the [company] he founded to run [another enterprise] and that, after [XXXX], he had "no role whatsoever in the management" of [the company] even though [company registration] documents listed him as president, chairman of the board and sole stockholder." I left any responsibility whatsoever, any effort, any involvement whatsoever in the management of [the company] after [XXXX],"
07-14-2012 , 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim
Sometimes bad people do some work for good organizations. There is hardly a group of any kind that hasn't found out at some point that one of its supporters had done bad things in other areas.

In fact, it is also true that sometimes bad people work for good organizations precisely because they want to compensate for the bad they do or have done.

It is important to be able to distinguish between the human person and the organizations and causes the person supports.

PokerStars and a number of other smaller gaming sites also contributed to the PPA and they are not accused of stealing from their players or being involved in the bad deeds of FTP. Does that make any difference?

Skallagrim

PS - FTP's donations were through a third party, but that fact was never hidden.
How much did Lederer, Ferguson, and FT contribute in toto to the PPA over the years, either directly or through 3rd parties ?
07-14-2012 , 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpethybridge
There is no simple answer to this. But to simplify, IGBA is not the only issue. There is UIGEA, there is money laundering and fraud, and there is the issue of what constitutes forfeitable "proceeds" of any particular violation. DOJ threw in the kitchen sink and asked for everything, putting it on the judge to give them less than everything, rather than seeking less than everything themselves.
I think there might be a difference between US and Europe. IDK maybe the following is true?

US seems to start with a big number and then work down.
Europe seems to start with a number and then work up.

I think the first has immediate pressure for settlements/pleading, the second if complexity and additional costs are likely to ratchet up the final costs bill.
07-14-2012 , 10:09 AM
Seriously, I can't handle this anymore. I miss FTP so much. I miss the golden era of online poker. I miss railing the pros. I miss the banter, and even just the friendly chat. I miss the enthusiasm so many people had for the game. I was watching Season 2 of the WPT earlier, and I literally felt a tear fall from my eye as it brought back better memories. I'm not American, and I can still play on Stars and Party, but it's not the same just playing against 12-tabling Eastern European Rocks. I don't even care about my locked up money anymore, I just want to turn back time.

I really hope a deal is made, and I'm sorry if this is a little off-topic, I just wanted to get that off my chest.
07-14-2012 , 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhn_lundgren
How much did Lederer, Ferguson, and FT contribute in toto to the PPA over the years, either directly or through 3rd parties ?
They sent poker back to the dark ages. That's their contribution.
07-14-2012 , 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle03
Just struck me as a solid template for HL, CF, etc. to use. Not trying to get into political debates (avoiding the truth or falsity of the statement), just found it funny.

"[Redacted] insisted that he abandoned the [company] he founded to run [another enterprise] and that, after [XXXX], he had "no role whatsoever in the management" of [the company] even though [company registration] documents listed him as president, chairman of the board and sole stockholder." I left any responsibility whatsoever, any effort, any involvement whatsoever in the management of [the company] after [XXXX],"

Is that Romney referring to Bain?
07-14-2012 , 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiller866
Correct, it deems money earned from gambling to be immoral, therefore unlawful, and the government is saying that the money PokerStars made was unlawful (immoral), therefore they don't have to prove a specific law violation in all 50 states to recover it.
That seems like a bit of a twisted take on the Anne frank law by the doj. It seems the intent was to make debts illegal to collect. Not illegal to be subject to forfeiture.

If that is the foundation of the doj case I see this going to court but I don't know the rest of the factors. I tend to lean towards the side of the doj instinctively on this but the more I see the stronger motivation I see for Stars to fight and not settle. They lucked out with FTP committing clear cut crimes outside of the scope of the initial doj attack.

Obviously a settlement is highly possible still but it seems like the doj might have to concede a lot. The one advantage they have is a layperson jury might believe gambling to always be illegal until a law specifically legalizes it instead of vice versa. (I mean online poker when I say gambling)
07-14-2012 , 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by munkey
I think there might be a difference between US and Europe. IDK maybe the following is true?

US seems to start with a big number and then work down.
Europe seems to start with a number and then work up.

I think the first has immediate pressure for settlements/pleading, the second if complexity and additional costs are likely to ratchet up the final costs bill.
In the US it works like this:

US company does bad thing in US then they have to pay [...],
foreign company does bad thing in US then they pay [...] times 10
07-14-2012 , 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreCeilings
hahhahah
07-14-2012 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargper
hahhahah
I bet she didn't know the answer?
07-14-2012 , 10:39 AM
I wonder how many gun owners think that the NRA is just a mouthpiece for gun and ammo manufacturers because the NRA gets donations from gun and ammo manufacturers.

I also wonder if one of the reasons the NRA is effective is because gun owners realize that that when it comes to political and legal rights they have the same interests as gun and ammo manufacturers.

This thread is about FTP not the PPA. The PPA has its own forum here on 2+2 and every question you have about PPA finances or PPA structure has already been answered there. Numerous times. And I will answer them again if you post them there.

But I wont answer them in this thread nor list in this thread all the ways the PPA is fighting for your rights; this thread has already suffered more than its fair share of derails.

/derail

Skallagrim
07-14-2012 , 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyg2001
Well this is the retweet. And I stand by what I said.

"Andrew Feldman‏@AFeldmanESPN

The Head of Corp Communications for @PokerStars @erichollreiser says the Twitter rumors of PS folding on the FTP deal is "false" "


[fictional alert]

@erichollreiser went on to say he felt comfortable with his 7c 2s with the j-10-q diamond flop.
07-14-2012 , 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antneye
DF, pretty sure you are a NY'er from your posts and your ability to be in the thick of things. As a fellow NY'er I will gladly buy you lunch any time you say. Thanks for all of your efforts.
I don't live in the city, but happy to say hi when possible. Let's save it for a celebration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braindead2000
Be careful, I received a temp-ban for a comment like this. Especially when you talk to DF. She is protected.
This is nonsense. From what I heard you posted some pre-teen a/s/l crap and asked for personal facebook links lol. Let me save you the trouble, I am older than dirt and twice as ugly, therefore your other questions are moot.

I also disclaim any protection whatsoever, nor have I ever asked for or expected any.

Last edited by SGT RJ; 07-14-2012 at 11:29 AM.
07-14-2012 , 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond_Flush
I don't live in the city, but happy to say hi when possible. Let's save it for a celebration?
Consider it a date. I've got enough money coming to me that you can even order an appetizer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braindead2000
Be careful, I received a temp-ban for a comment like this. Especially when you talk to DF. She is protected.
Good Gog man....get a sense of humor. You honestly think I am trying to turn NVG in to match.com?

Last edited by SGT RJ; 07-14-2012 at 11:29 AM.
07-14-2012 , 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond_Flush
This is nonsense. From what I heard you posted some pre-teen a/s/l crap and asked for personal facebook links lol. Let me save you the trouble, I am older than dirt and twice as ugly, therefore your other questions are moot.

I also disclaim any protection whatsoever, nor have I ever asked for or expected any.
Maybe you haven't asked for it but I have seen it before that people have been banned when you are involved.
It was an innocent question that got me temp banned. I don't blame you for it. Some mods just don't have a feeling for the "game", like a referee. A good referee reads the game.
If this thread only contained 1000-words-long posts about legal stuff how many people you think would follow this thread? I think you also write here because you have a big audience . A big audience also wants to see some entertainment, some one-liners, Howard jokes, some off topic derail.
Like I said, a good mod (like SGT RJ) knows how to controll the off topic derail
without banning somebody every 15 minutes. But apparently some mods that showed up the last few days just live to ban somebody.
07-14-2012 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antneye
Consider it a date. I've got enough money coming to me that you can even order an appetizer
There should really be a substantial party at the end of the fiasco. We will boil pigs and roast lobsters in effigy.
07-14-2012 , 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreCeilings
This is what Annie Duke's and Howard's daughter would look like.
07-14-2012 , 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Stewart
This is what Annie Duke's and Howard's daughter would look like.
LOL.... great way to start the day....
07-14-2012 , 12:31 PM
Is this for real please ?
07-14-2012 , 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lull
Is this for real please ?
yeah i was wondering the same thing... is this photoshopped?
07-14-2012 , 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iampi
There should really be a substantial party at the end of the fiasco. We will boil pigs and roast lobsters in effigy.
Live freeroll for all victims hosted by FTP shareholders in Vegas. $440 million added to the prizepool.

Seriously though, even if we get paid in full they should do something to attempt to make amends for the 1 + years of separation from our money. What's the juice on $350 million over one year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShipItYo
yeah i was wondering the same thing... is this photoshopped?
Someone tweeted it the other day. I believe it's real.

Last edited by SGT RJ; 07-14-2012 at 09:31 PM.
07-14-2012 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle03
Live freeroll for all victims hosted by FTP shareholders in Vegas. $440 million added to the prizepool.

Seriously though, even if we get paid in full they should do something to attempt to make amends for the 1 + years of separation from our money. What's the juice on $350 million over one year?

Please don't start a discussion of how much extra we should get when they reopen. You are just a few comments away from the useless
Iron man medals and fpp point discussion.
07-14-2012 , 12:46 PM

      
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