When you are getting crushed in a debate, resorting to childishness is not a good look.

Thank god, this will never happen to you.

you might want to reconsider what 'crushing' and 'debate' mean.

for starters, a debate is not based on pointless rambling. the depth of your bankroll or lack thereof is your responsibilty, yet your argument is that because of the oh-so-bad fins, you are getting owned because they have a bankroll and you don't (and don't get me started on your lol example. if your bankroll can't handle triple barrels from your villains, you might consider moving down).

edit: this bs must be funny to the mods as this is the only logical reason these posts slammin' the fins are still up.

It has happened to me many times and I'll play any Finn any time at PLO, especially as I now realise that some of their success has been achieved through rule breaking and cheating and not through skill and ability.

You SN is obviously Finnish, so you thought you'd come into this thread and defend your poker countrymen by aiming a sarcastic remark at me.

in b4 new NVG thread 'the fins took me bankrollz!'

I think you need to work on reading the room.

Everyone here is correctly pointing out that you are being overzealous.

In the last year there has been so many huge cheating scandals, why are you trying so hard to make this sound worse than it actually is.

By the way, did you enter the $1k PLO main or do you play high stakes PLO?

If not, this whole thing doesn't affect you in the slightest.

You are clutching at straws with your reply,

Not every player at all times is going to be playing the level of buy in that is exactly equivalent to 1/200th of their bankroll (or whatever their standard BRM multiple might be),
because that game isn't always available, so I can easily be sitting in a game at some levels lower than a top Finn's highest possible stake.

Also, if you genuinely believe that having a much bigger bankroll than your opponents is not a big advantage, then you are a relatively inexperienced player.

It is a massive advantage in PLO cash, not just for triple barrelling but for check raising with back doors, barrelling actual equity and following through on the river when missing, iso plays pre, betting with blockers, or if you want to plain play high variance to gamble it up and try to put your opponents on tilt, given that equities run very close in so many spots, so any lost EV by playing gambly high variance, might be more than compensated for by upsetting your opponent's game.

add the fact that there's 0 reasons to believe both the tournament direction and pokerstars won't take their standard approach to this, treating Eelis the same way they did others countless times before.

the dude really acts as if stars was unable/unaware/not willing to do anything on the matter and the only way to have justice in the whole wide pokerworld is by him rambling in an NVG thread.

cabron, this is not UB where the owner of the site is super using and we need the community to stick up for itself in order to get justice.
if that's your thing, maybe try your hand at the Botfarm situation.

With all due respect, this is a blind spot that you have, if you think low level rule breaking / cheating, is acceptable, and if you can't see beyond the actual incident itself, and work out that this is an attitude towards rule breaking, that at least 3 Finnish players (in this thread alone), have got towards it.

I've played as high as £2K PLO MTTs and $25/$50 online and some very deep €5/€10 live, €6K to €20K stacks.

I'm not currently playing as I run a business and don't have the time, but when I return I will certainly be targeting these players that think it's okay to break the rules.

your reading comprehension is the nut low.

nowhere did I say having a larger bankroll isn't an advantage (in handling swongs). but the size of your bankroll is not the effing responsibilty of the fins lol. they worked for it.
and because one fin double regged into a live and online tourney when he wasn't allowed to, you think the whole finnish high stakes community is sitting on those rolls undeservedly?

your post re triple barrelling made it clear you have no clue about poker strategy. your dismissal of other peoples achievements makes it clear you have no clue about working hard neither.

Yes, I do believe that they have in part built their bankroll through rule breaking, and perhaps through cheating.

The triple barrel play I described is a really standard piece of strat than any decent PLO player knows, so it's you that hasn't got a clue what you're talking about.
It's also a standard play as a C bet in tournaments when the SPR is low and can win the pot that way.

No more tapping the tank by me ITT.

If you two want to chat about stuff, take it to PM, discord or whatever. Thank you.

If someone thinks that violating the no phone policy is cheating, that's their prerogative. Same if someone thinks folding out of turn to go to the bathroom is cheating. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone else is allowed to disagree with that. No need to keep making your point over and over again.

Okay, fair point I've said enough. I repeated some of it because I am under attack from some posters for my views.

you got attacked once you turned this from 'eelis is a cheat!' to 'most hs regs from finland must be cheats!' and it's a bit beyond me as to why the mods tolerate that as it's imo much worse for the poker community than to have 1 guy breaking some minor rules.

I'm out.

It seems like mods are quoting the non serious issue at this time. I made the thread with the information available, I'm happy to have this locked and re-write the thread in full to include what he did wrong, and with the facts given a chance.

Here is what happened;

I had action of a player at the final table, who will remain anonymous - It was brought to my attention the EEE27 was playing the 25k HR of the WSOPE In Czech Republic - I immediately check the livestream, tried to see if he had a laptop or phone visible, and he didn't.

It's basic knowledge you can't play pokerstars.com from the Czech Republic, and with this information, the fact that day 2 of the wcoop event was during day 1 of the WSOPE HR event and also combined with the fact I couldn't see him with a device I made the assumption he was being ghosted. This seemed the most likely at this point in time

It has since come to my attention he did max late reg the WSOPE event, therefor not playing during day 2 wcoop. He did indeed play via his cellphone for the WCOOP FT, this was also confirmed to me from multiple sources - However he did so from the CZECH REPUBLIC.

This makes any cash/score irrelevant, you cannot play from a country where it is illegal to do so. We've seen accounts seized for doing exactly this, and I expect harsh punishment will follow.

The thread now should revolve around a title such as: EEE27 Wins WCOOP Title, from Czech Republic (Illegal)

The only issue in this thread/from EEE27 is the fact he played from a country he was not allowed too, breaking major rules of pokerstars and should be stripped of his wcoop title/prize money.

what makes you think this issue needs an NVG thread though? it's not like it happened 10 months ago. give stars some time to do their job (and that job includes much more than potential stripping of wcoop title and prize money ofc).

imo an NVG thread on this can only turn into a 'all fins are cheats' kinda discussion at this point as evident by this thread.

if stars is not reacting to all of this at all in due time, I'll be supporting this thread. right now it just seems pointless and only attracting hate posts.

That's for Pokerstars to decide though. Let's see what their findings are. If they deem something illegal happened, we can certainly update the thread title. So far the only thing he's guilty of is using his phone while it wasn't allowed.

I didn't want to get involved in this thread as I've been friends with EEE27 for nearly 15 years and anything I say would obviously be biased. I also don't really have an opinion what Stars should do here, but EEE already said he is cooperating with them fully and will accept whatever they decide. So there's no need for a lynching mob.

Anyway, what I came to post was this:

I don't think this is accurate? Playing on PokerStars from the Czech Republic isn't illegal, they are fully licensed there as far as I know (Source: PokerStars.cz, Pokernews and PokerStrategy articles also suggest the same). Also, they appear to share the same global liquidity pool as, say, Finland (source). In Europe the hassle around licensed markets varies wildly from country to country, and it only gets more confusing and difficult every year. There are tons of countries that share the global liquidity pool, but in many jurisdictions you need to create a new account to join it because of local licensing bs.

So it's not like he committed some heinous crime, both the country he lives in and the country he played from are countries where PokerStars operates legally and both countries share the exact same liquidity pool. The only reason this is even a thread is because Czechia's licensing stuff requires you to fill some paperwork to get your account (re)instated if you live there.

Ironically, if EEE were to move to one of these countries where Stars would indeed need him to create a second account to join the global pool, then he'd actually gain an unfair edge because his opponents wouldn't know who he is. Instead, he played on his account and in a game that he has access to in his everyday life, and that he would still have access to if he lived in Czechia. Yes, he still broke the rules, and if you had a percentage of someone at that final table, I completely understand trying to get Stars to DQ him. And I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished (I think it's a pretty tough spot for Stars honestly). All I'm saying is that maybe it's time to take it down a notch in terms of the language used.

I also know that people love witch-hunting, and this community has done a great job sherlocking actual cheating cases in the past. But we need to be careful where we use language like "illegal" or "cheater" because otherwise those words will lose their meaning. Labeling what happened here under the same umbrella as Ali, Jake, Postle, et al is not only ridiculous but also hurts our credibility when going after actual cheaters. No competitive advantage was gained here -- multitabling and this whole mess only hurt his EV in both tournaments.

I believe him playing the online tournament from a country where it wasn't allowed definitely harmed the other players. He took a large part of the prize pool that would have otherwise gone to other players.

They must be reeeal nervous.

I feel like he broke the rule, but not the spirit of the rule. The rule is in place to stop players from getting real time info, not to stop them from playing online at the same time.

Don't underestimate me, especially against players who have robotic type skills and very little else, i.e minimal live skills and not much of a soul.

Your point assumes that the player in question didn't cheat in such a fashion; I don't see how anyone in this thread can know that for certain, so discussion of it seems perfectly reasonable.

Do you know for certain that he didn't get any helpful information from his phone?

The reason rules like this exist is that it would be impossible the make sure he wasn't getting any help via his phone, so they have to make the use of the phone completely against the rules. Even if he didn't get any info, he broke the rule just as much as someone who did get unfair info that way, so he should be treated the same. Otherwise, the rule will never have any teeth.

Stars has specific rules for visiting licensed countries for less than 2 weeks. Not sure what the rule for .cz is, but I'd be surprised if he gets more than a warning. It may even be allowed

Calling a small rules violation (playing at the feature table) cheating is insane