Not saints, but neither are we poker cheats.

Type of dude see you smoking weed and call the cops back in the day. Get you locked up for 10 years and tell you that you should have followed the laws or voted.

I've never called the cops on anyone that has been doing something that only affects themselves.

In addition I quite recently saw a homeless person (possibly in a very poor mental state too) stuffing 1 kg bars of chocolate into his pockets and clothing and I said nothing to anyone, as it would have served no useful purpose to society for his situation to be made even worse than it already was. Which weighed up against a ~$25 loss to the supermarket, I felt was the correct decision by me.

I have called the cops twice on people who stole from me, one who did it with the security cameras of New Scotland Yard (London police HQ) pointing at the crime as it took place! They/I let him and his wife off in the end (she was also stealing from me) because they were quite old, and because his son phoned me to apologise for his parents' behaviour. Additionally, I asked them nicely to give me the items back that they had stolen, and I did it after the group I was with had left, so as not to embarrass the two thieves. But they denied stealing so I reached into their bags and pulled out the stuff they had stolen from me. They still denied it, so I said "I have had enough of this (their behaviour)", and I called the police.

So I am not an unreasonable person.

But this is a poker forum, where part of its purpose is for players and the game to police itself and to call out wrongdoing, and I have joined in on this particular discussion.

If this has hurt the feelings and burst the bubble of some players who think they are above the rules and above the law when it comes to things poker, then tough.

Carry on defending your position if you want. I am still here.

If we set the bar for "cheating" that low, we'd have 17 new cheating threads every day. "No electronics" rules have been ignored/violated since mobile phones became a thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9emntA924w&t=11369s
3:06:37-3:06:57

Can some Finnish speaker translate what EEE27 is shouting to Joni (is it Jouhkiainen)?

He asks "where did that Buskas (or something) go?" and then continues saying something like "nothing is coming to you" and kinda stops in middle of that sentence.

*

Edit/MH:

See https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...0&postcount=94

I am surprised by the behaviour of EEE by trying to hide his smartphone. I faced a similar case last week.
I played the Final Table of a High Roller in France. A sponsored pro was present at the tabe (and won it). He was playing in parallel a high stake tournament on ACR on his laptop.
Obviously, he asked permission to the tournament director to do so. Everybody was aware and ok with it.
The worse is to do it without warning the staff.
Errors can happen, just be mature and face the situation with referees.

But at this tournament they were strict enough about that rule that they confiscated the phones of the other players.

He max late regged the 25k on day 2 so most of this post isn't relevant

Blows my mind some of you guys care about this so much despite it having zero impact on you whatsoever. This isn't cheating, hes only putting himself at a disadvantage. But to feel its your duty to make this thread and potentially wreck this guys profession over this!?!? Come the f'';k on.

"some of us guys" didn't create the thread, one person did. All I know about it is what I read here, but if the user is actually him, he posted here confirming that he broke the rules of both the live tournament and the poker site.

So potentially another player playing his account isnt cheating?

Apparently, you and all the other people reading this thread, including the two people who gave you a thumbs up. If you didn't care about it, you wouldn't have read it.

Huge nothingburger if what we're talking about is the fact that he was playing two tournaments at once.

Entirely different story if EEE27 is having someone else play on his account, which appears not to be the case here.

Hello EZE27

I think what you miss is that most people wouldn't classify it as cheating if this didn't happen:

The OP was suggesting that the player either wasn't playing the online tournament himself, or he was playing it on his phone whilst playing the live tournament. Neither would give him an advantage over anyone in the live tournament. Yes, it would be breaking the rules, but that's not what many people would consider to be "cheating". Of course by bringing the phone in, he opens himself up to accusations of more conventional cheating as well.

Well, if he had someone else playing for him in the online tournament (and I'm not saying he did, but it was one of the possibilities), I think people would be right to give a **** about it. But if this thread bothers you, I promise no one will make you continue to read it.

Hey,

being dragged in to this case was not really surprise but happy to make few things clear here:

Eelis speaking Finnish in the stream was to me yes. Saying Voiks kuskaa tätä - translates to Can you deliver/carry this?
Couple moments before this Eelis was concerned about players next to him seeing use of his phone and now he wanted to see if I can bring his phone back to him if its taken. We both thought that violating the no electronic devices-rule was reasonable under these special circumstances.

He then continued his online play casually under the table which me and other players can confirm.

For what its worth, this guy is propably one of the worlds best multitablers and no surprise he handled these two finals same time.


- Joni Jouhkimainen

The bolded part is totally pathetic and ridiculous and it underlines the points that I made earlier in the thread, that a certain clique of players think it's okay ("reasonable") to break the rules when it suits them.

EEE27, in my opinion, should face a very harsh punishment for violating the rules, not because what he did was a particularly extreme example of rule breaking (cheating/potential cheating),
but to serve as a deterrent to others who think they can do the same in the future because they assume that they'll either get away with it, or if caught, will just get a slap on the wrists or only a small penalty or ban.

I only play PLO and I've commented in some other threads that I rate the Finns the best at PLO that I've played against. When I stated that, I didn't consider that some, many, maybe most, of the top Finnish PLO players have either rule broken, rule bent, or outright cheated their way up to high stakes. Now I am pretty certain that many have, so I have lost all respect for them as a group.

The only pathetic thing here is your posts on the topic, trying to drag this out.

Whilst he did break the rules, I bet if you surveyed every person in the 25k, they would not care in the slightest.

I'd not even call it cheating, seeing as it puts him at a disadvantage having to concentrate on live/mobile at the same.

Saying you have lost respect for all Finish poker players because of this is hilariously pathetic.

the most pathetic thing is your take on this situation, asking for totally blown-out-of-proportion measurements for someone breaking the rules when NVG is littered with threads about actual cheating.

Yes, punishment is used as a deterrent, and as such it is held in proportion to the offense. you are literally asking to throw a guy in jail for stealing candy.

and if that wasn't enough, you now accuse a large part of the finish pros to be cheaters.

if anything, you should get temp banned for your last paragraph.

i think in the past players have been playing from an area that wasnt allowed on pokerstars and received a very harsh ban

and from stars pov, the phone doesnt matter a lot but playing from a forbidden country does

There are clearly plenty of poker cheats ITT defending the actions of a player who broke the rules and has admitted to breaking the rules.

For a long time, my estimate of the percentage of players who are outright cheats or opportunist cheats has been 80%. Well a few of that 80% appear to be in this thread
as they clearly have no regard for rules.

I care about cheating. I don't care about breaking minor rules in a way that harms nobody.

And I care about the state of the game. If you care too, you might reconsider throwing baseless accusations around.

btw, the closest I ever got to cheating in poker was reaping the benefits of a rb system on an old euro network. If done right, you were able to get 104% rakeback.

If two of the top Finnish players as recently as a few days ago thought it was "reasonable" to knowingly break the rules, then it is a logical assumption that this is the ethos of the high stakes Finnish poker community. In fact, if you watch the excellent Last Call documentary here https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=174 and its following episode,
you'll see clearly that the high stakes Finnish PLO community is tight-knit and that they learn from each other.

Well, if they are learning from each other, then they will very likely all be following a similar philosophy regarding rule breaking.

The reason this is bad is not just that it is unethical, but it is creating a very unfair advantage for them in games when one plays against them.

Think about it, as an example, if a top Finnish PLO player 3 bets you pre in position with a low rundown hand and then triple barrels on a board that is all high cards, they are much more able to run this strategy because their bankroll is much bigger than yours, a bankroll which they have in part built by rule breaking and/or by potentially cheating.

One top pro has admitted rule breaking ITT and another has backed him up, by saying that his actions were "reasonable", and you want me banned from the thread for pointing out that this could be an indicator that this attitude could be endemic among high stakes Finnish players.

words of wisdom itt