Up more than twice as much this year as any previous year, games getting softer as lower tier pros go broke

Or, I just win more flips than I used to, maybe it's that

Grunching: yes

Five hundred dollars a day minimum? Wth are you on? Fifty bucks an hour is a serious hourly, and playing for ten hours a day, every day is insane. What stakes are you talking about? Are you pulling this out of thin air?

Not only is that unrealistic, but you need to be playing at least 5/10 for that kind of hourly. Even at 5/10, that's pretty f good for just coasting by (averages to a 40% return on a 100BB buy-in playing for eight hours, or 20% @ 200BB - even that's good). Is that ballin'? No. However, not only can you live off of that, but you can live rather comfortably.

I'm glad that we agree that you need to get out of the small stakes as quick as possible if you are looking at playing professionally. Making $50 an hour in a 5/10 game shouldn't be impossible as I see it but you are really looking at moving up in stakes even further; I say the 10/20 is the where you should play. While there are some who can rake in serous money at the lower levels most won't and they need to step up the ladder as quick as possible to get to a decent hourly. What I write does seem strange when you read it at first and this comes from you people listening to the delusional poster at 2+2 who doesn't know **** about what they are doing or those who only want you to bring your money to their table.

When you start out you will do so in the 1/2 or 2/5 but you need to understand that your main priority is to get out of these levels as quick as possible, how long this takes is individual but loitering about there for a few years probably mean that you will pack you bags and leave Vegas or whatever place you are looking playing at. As a professional poker player your main problem will be to find games to play in and this pretty much mean you will need to move to a new city to do so. It is a great investment in both capital and time to go pro and you should take some time to think it trough seriously. I know that there are some threads on 2+2 about some guy who just moved to Vegas and now are making big money but you must read everything they have to say.

There is big money to be made/taken at the micro levels but most of you won't be as good as the guys who do so and should adjust accordingly. Going break even after 3 years (after all costs has been deducted) is 3 years wasted where you should have done something else.

What I think bigfish is saying is that you should move up to where they respect your raises.

"You need to make $50 an hour to survive the downswings"

Dude Your hourly rate includes the downswings. Or do you for some weird reason calculate your hourly on winning sessions? Lol

Making sweeping statements on the softness of live games is pretty silly. Surely it depends from place to place cos rich degens n fish make the games

My local in Auckland normally has only 3-4 tables going and I'm often stuck in a nitfest while a great game is going 10 feet away sometimes the place is bursting with fools, others nights it all the regs glaring at each other gettjng eaten by the rake

No not soo much.

How are you ever going to determine you hourly to any decent degree? If you play 10 hours a week for a whole year you get 36½k hours of game and this will be nowhere close to getting any decent certainty on your stats. What I say is that you are aiming at $50 because once you hit a downswing you will suffer greatly unless you have a buffer to take money from and you need to move up quick if you want to make it in poker. There are a few who make some serious money at the lower levels but most don't, most who are dreaming of going pro are delusional in their thinking when they believe they will be able to grind the 1/2 level and pay for everything they need and still have money over to build their roll.

Most of the pros at 2+2 have no real understanding of what they are doing and this is why you always suffer when things go bad. You just don't get it and you don't understand what type of market you are on and how one behaves at such a market. Instead you listen to others that are just as delusional as you are getting into some macabre group psychosis where the idiocy goes around and around until it becomes truth within your cult like movement.

Read any thread started by someone who has gone pro and you will see that they worked their way up from the lower levels fast, some even bought their way trough this and they do so for a reason, playing a low yielding game with high variance is a sure way to go broke.

Pretty sure your poker experience is losing online, maybe breaking even live, lots of reading threads mixed with cannabis induced wild theory making. Stop posting you sound babo as fk

Is it safe to say most poker players would not go broke if they practised strict br management? especially the good players?

Most of the high stakes online players are not rolled for the games they play like isildur1.

How would proper BRM help a losing player? You still need to be a winner to make the money you need to manage in your BR.

Your pessimistic approach to poker reflects clearly in your posts. It seems like you think you're just being realistic, though I really feel sorry for anyone that takes your long winded posts seriously. Sorry you lost at 1/2.

Many confuse pessimism for being realistic. Most of you are living in a dreamworld where you are looking at going pro and most of you will fail at this. Not because you are bad players (although some of you are) but because you don't treat the game as a business but a lifestyle choice. The people who know how to take care of themselves and know how to act on a liquidity market will do good, but since most of you are clueless as to how you are to go about this you will waste time on pursuing your dream. Fact is that you need to start making lots of money fast if you want to survive as a pro player and while some can get by on the 1/2 game I doubt most of you will or would want to, even if you make 10BB/hour we are talking about $20/hour before taxes and all your costs that come with playing. Making $50/hour doesn't mean that you get $500 in your wallet after a 10 hour session, it means that you have $500 to spend per day to cover everything you need and put away some for your future. If you look more careful at this you'll see that $500 isn't that much. It does not count if you live in your parents basement while playing, cutting costs is a terrible way to go about surviving.

Regarding the results at 1/2 I really haven't kept track of it, had a wad of cash in a bag that was my live CG roll but that roll vent into other ventures that have payed of decent. Haven't played that much the last year and close to no CG's since I like tournaments better.

I kind of agree with that guy. If you want to be a professional live poker player, you are far better off just saving up the money needed to start at $2/$5. Unless you are a phenomenal player who never EVER tilts and plays a solid game near 100% of the time, you are not going to have any chance of making more that $15-$20 per hour at $1/$2. This could be enough to live on, sure, but if you are living on your winnings, you are going to have near $0 left to add to your bankroll, and moving up will be near impossible. It will also be really hard to save any money, and one big downswing or unexpected expense, and it can all come crashing down.

Additionally, most people smart enough to make $20/hour at $1/$2 are going to also have the skills to make way more than that at a normal job.

I don't even play cash tbh I have friends that play 1/2 part time and do something else part time it works out great for them. I don't know anyone that's just grinding 1/2 and calling themselves a pro or making a living. Like, who are you even talking about? You state detailed characteristics about "2+2 pros" and their dillusions, living situation, dreams etc and take a stance that you're above it all. When in fact you know nothing about these "pros". In my experience when someone provides so many details about a large group they're usually just referring to themselves in some way (past or present). I mean maybe I'm wrong do you have any decent results to back up what you say? Are you referring to specific ppl? Or is this just all bias?

If you can't tell it's not your stance on 1/2 I disagree with, it's a simple conclusion. But you're support is like diarrhea.

Sorry my last post was a bit aggro but u p**ssed me off in the Feldman thread

It's pretty common knowledge that 2/5 is the min requirement to play professionally live, even with low living costs

Personally I think there's literally hundreds of better ways to spend your time earning money than sitting in a scummy casino grinding out $30 an hour, but whatever... diff strokes n all that

Way too many sweeping statements being made here. Categorising all games of the same limit in one boat shows a clear lack of knowledge regarding the landscape.

Mind obliterated at fish's 50/hr win rate explanation and to get that winrate you have to make precisely 50 each hour

Do you even lift

Cliffs:

Don't play poker for a living, keep it as a hobby.

wut

What are these ventures that you used this 1-2 bank roll wad of cash for

I do not believe you at all

Did you really donk off your roll and convince yourself it was because you used it on other ventures to make you feel better

Do you even lift bro?

You've been a member since 2010 and have ~750 posts, haven't you read the stuff that is posted? There is a small minority of no more then 5% of the posters who know what they are doing, the rest either don't know/understand how to behave in a money market or are delusional; I'd say most are delusional since they don't ask the right questions. Instead you have a herd of people who are dreaming about making it big when fact is that the probably could live very comfortable of the 5/10 games. I really don't know what is going on with most poker kids that are posting on 2+2, their own experience should be enough to show that they need to move up and need to make more per hour. What I think is the problem is that most of these poker kids are kids still living at home never having had rent, utilities and other bills; hence they don't have a clue about what it costs to have their own place.

If someone plays for 10 hours at a casino they will have costs related to this, not only costs that are related to getting to the games but what about food? The prices at casinos and clubs aren't really good in terms of what you get for your dollars, or do some suggest you bring a microwave pizza and a bag of bananas to the tables?

You are wrong on this, most of the people at 2+2 are delusional and take advice from others that are just as insane as them. You have a lot of poker kids that will go broke from listening to much to what the community has to say and listen too little to those who make a living at poker or have experience from money markets. They will take a it and get hurt, they will look for a staker and either get into the staking trap where they will be giving up too much to ever get out of the hole or end up as dealers at clubs. The poker kids don't want to believe this but time will tell, just as it has with internet poker. It would be nice if some made it or just didn't get into the hole but as it is you cannot save a fool from himself.

Most poker kids would do good to take some of their winnings and pay a professional adviser as to how they should treat their money. Problem is that most of these are sales agents for various services that are provided and hence will pitch these instead of giving real useful advice. The poker kids are alone in their adventure since the few who try to give any decent advice drown in the **** that is posted by delusional people who think they are going to pack their bag, move to Vegas and take the money from people they have seen on some poker show.