LOL @ all of u who think the game cant be beat..

Yeah he played badly in a 150 hand session, that totally writes off his millions of hands online beating the games

This is the truest post on 2+2 in a long time.

If you want to make a lot of money don't play poker, start a business....THEN you can 5 bet bluff since the guy you're up against doesn't have the balls to call since he needs to pay rent.

lol so many ******ed posts ITT i cant tell whos levelling

On other notes. OF normal poker pros who were no super rich before they started to play poker who is actually riches today? If i had to guess i would say Bax and Sheets any other guesses maybe Daniel Negreanu or Erik Seidel comes to mind

PATRIK "GOD" ANTONIUS. Your argument is invalid.

It's all lack of BR MGMT, imho.

Every great trader on Wall Street uses some variation of Kelly Criterion...and yet almost all of them have blown up an account or more than one account.

If you aren't a disciplined investor, you will blow your account up on emotional trades trying to "get back". It's just gambling at a higher level.

And then there's Warren Buffet-types who are always disciplined and never "tilt", and always keep their cool when Kelly is running their accounts low.

Do you think it's an eventuality that Warren will go broke? I'm sure he blew up an account or two in the past, but do you think he's going to break himself now?

I doubt it.

If you play poker, the swings are tremendous. Millions of hands, and you still may have not seen your worst swing. The trick is to invest like a professional trader, using some variation of Kelly, even though you have to adjust it for the differences in poker. Nothing is exact or perfect, so staying on the side of caution is huge.

I wouldn't be close to borke at all right now if Black Friday wouldn't of happened. You can fairly criticize that as bad BR MGMT, but I certainly never "blew up" my poker account playing poker. It was poor judgement outside the game that caused me to have so much of my BR on FTP. I learned, and if I'm lucky enough to get that money back, I'll never make that mistake again. It's just another wrinkle in BR MGMT is all.

But is it guaranteed that EVERY poker player will always go broke? No way...not if they take the time to study Money Management Strategies. Kelly betting, or some variation, will make it virtually impossible. And if you adjust for the lowest possible stake you are willing to play, you can make it nearly impossible that you'll ever fall below a BR to play that buy-in level.

Allin all, nothing is impossible...but if half of the hi rollers that have edges in big games used my BR MGMT strat, they'd probably never go broke. Most gamblers are degens though, and can't stick to such a disciplined strategy. They tilt to easy and play up when they need to play down. That will break anyone, even the best ever.

LOL @ u who think the game can be beat.

Everyone wake the hell up. The game of Texas holdem poker can never I will repeat NEVER be BEAT! Longterm! It is a luck game! Simple

I mean I play with skill and others play with skill and we do good, but we cannot stop the fact of getting unlucky.

I am ahead and playing with skill making solid reads and stellar laydowns etc, etc. And still my AK gets crushed by AQ a lot no matter how well I play it. Luck unfort. kills Skill dead in its tracks.

So that is poker 101

So you can indeed play skilful poker the whole night long and stay away from getting unlucky and who knows you might get lucky a couple of times (playing with skill you do not need to get lucky however you need to avoid getting unlucky like the plauge!!!) and you can win a lot of money! To me this is poker in a nutshell. So this do lead a lot of players to be broke at different times.

Players with skill do better than luckboxes
Playing with skill gives you a advantage
That being said
You have to not get unlucky and you will make a lot of money!!

Are people finally understanding how it works? Now you know why you get such crazy beats online, all these ***** fktard reetards not having a clue looking for the suckout and going for lucky only about 70%-80% of players online play this way and it is why it is so hard.

Also live players tend to play more sane and they are a bit tighter so that is why it is a bit easier to avoid getting unlucky live.

I could go on and on but I wont

Wait, are u saying its profitible for AQ in this spot or does both hands lose in the long run?

Great post. You're mostly completely on the money.

Tell you a story. I'm in the South several years ago, and a guy I know, big name machines pro, also his blackjack is pretty good, and he makes money both hustling and staking 9-ball players...anyway, we've been drinking, and he goes to me, "T, is it like in poker just like it is in the 9-ball events?" I knew what he was saying right there...you see all these 9-ball players on TV you think they're millionaires, they're all tapped. He didn't even have to finish the sentence. I confirmed it for him.

I think you can make decent money in cash games, even online, but tourneys, the rake is just too strong. So, if you don't have a deal, forget it. No one has more than a 15-17% edge in tourneys long run, and guess what the rake is in most of them?

I know about most of the pros, they're always in and out of money, but a lot of them have at least one hole, sometime two or more. But keep in mind its the lack of respect for money that makes some of them great.

I don't agree with you about Doyle. Doyle ain't going broke ever, even if he lives to be 130 and plays every day. The rest...yes. There is a ton of what it is isn't what it appears to be in poker. Always has been, always will be.

This thread is AMAZING.

jerry yang beat the game

Poker+Broke=Poker Life

LOL

I would like to add more about Joe Hachem, hes probably the most smartest with his money from his big tournament winnings (WSOP etc). You never ever see him play cash at highstakes in the casinos in vegas- Its always for TV appearances which he plays nitty as - he owns a mortage brokerage company and is very well stabilized financially. Imo he is the prime example of someone who is very smart with their money, although don't get me started on his idiotic brother... tony.

This thread is so tilting

CursedbyaGypsy is clearly trolling.

Clearly If I was a histakes player I would diversify my holdings so I couldn't have my **** ruined if one day my poker skill was no longer good enough to try to sustain a good living.


tl;dr degenerates go broke, people who manage their money reasonably don't(I bet I will still see Sklansky in a decade or two still semi-raging in the political forum)


Everybody in this thread that says "LOLOL PPL JUST WANT 2 DREAM POKER PROS alwayz GO BROKE TROLOLOL" Ok. Sure. Believe what you want. You're clearly convinced and won't be demonstrated/talked out of it even though we see clear examples of former players still in it that are non-degenerates. Poker isn't life for a lot of people, and many people move away from the game eventually.

Seriously look at the terrible arm-chair financial advice, psychological evaluations, and doomsday evaluations. ("He went out side and it seemed like it was the end of the world......") Please, leave such evaluations to the psychological professionals.

Bankroll management isn't just having x amount of buyins to reduce risk of ruin. It's avoiding black-swan like events of full tilt, removing your ability to donk off all your money doing degenerate stuff(craps/pit games ), and if you can't handle your money it's time to get some financial consulting or entrust your finances to someone who won't lose it all in a tilting downswing.\

It is unfortunate that poker attracts much of the same psychological tendencies as with other pit games and thus people who are of this frame of mind will of course lose their money one day if they don't change their behavior.

I know this player and let me say several things. He hasn't played on PokerStars in almost a year and he didn't relocate to play.

ummm, super user?

trying to jog my memory..... Nope, dont recall ever being broke in 5 years of playing poker as my exclusive income. I do ok?

Almost did when i lost 90% of the roll in the FTP shutdown, but 6 months later am back to where i was.

Shocked OP ever finished middle school.

nice level.
Its impossible

Poker is a money transfer system.
Just like in the real world, if there are people who get (at least temporarily) rich, there must be a proportional number who doesn't- either by losing their richness/ by entering the game, losing their start money and saying good bye/ by struggling in middle class.

Apparently besides the mediocre players who are up and down around the median for the most part, you'll always have people who do well over a long period of time, just as you will have people who do the opposite.
I guess you call that "streaks"?

After the hype of Poker a few years back it was in the interest to sell the "you can make it too" -dream- so it makes sense to me that big promoters like ps or ftp stacked a lot of guys.
Isn't that some part of the ftp problem?
Ftp loaning money to way too many players?
So you have these people on tv, no one knows how much debt they have, but they get paid for their promotion and stacked for tournaments.
(on a side note, if you have a debt of say 10 million why not drive a Bentley? It's not much compared to 10 million).
If your face and your reputation are your assets you can stay around playing big games for quiet some time.

Anyway, it's undebatable that only money that is lost can be won, and the exponential winnings of some players can only be explained by either an exponential loss of other players, or a decent loss each by many players.
I mean, if some guy here says he's been making a decent living just on playing poker for the last 5 years, there'll be a number of people who did just that until they lost their money to him or someone like him .
And really, what's 5 years?
Is that supposed to be a long period of time in poker these days?
That is more telling than you wished

I know, I know, BR management...
Even in poker there must be a reality too:
High roi= high risk
Low roi = low risk=grind=better get a job at McD cause not everyone can be a Mizraghi

Reminding me of that old wisdom:
Anyone can make it- but not everyone.

Well of course.
Thats why I only play play money.

Some play money games are dead though.

omg that graph left me in awe

STOP fighting it guys OP is right!!! doesn't matter if you want to believe in the dream...the numbers don't lie think of all the people who play poker and then consider the number that are actually winners who support families and have an incredible lifestyle...what percentage do you really think it is? I really wish Doyle Brunson would post here and actually answer this..i'm almost positive he would agree with op..