Being on the road is expensive because you depend on people for everything, and you pay them for everything. And you gotta be on the road to find enough games.
Vegas and other gambling centers have enough games spread out so you might stay there for a while, but the competition is fierce.

bigfish is just another kind of joeschmoe, one has to stay strong and not read their posts. or look at it from a comedic standpoint.

no need to be afraid of them believing... it ain't gonna happen. People tend to insist on learning the hard way.

I agree with bigfish , a lot of internet poker kids has not face the reality of life or just plain delusional.

Once they moved outside their parents house they will think that the money in poker is not easy or not enough to pay rent, car insurance , health insurance , food and the last but not the least is the expenses of having a kid/kids in their life if they have it.

Of course what you will see from TV you will remember (big guys going broke etc), but that's just a very small percentance of the players who play for a living what you see from the media.
Nobody is going to make an article about some random NL100 winner who is actually a very decent player and makes a decent living. That's not something people want to read about. They want intrigues, people going broke, reading stories about big swings and so on.

Lol @ "vegas delusional dream lifestyle" and sentences like that.
Why do people think it's some "dream" these "kids" you're saying are chasing. They make a living like at every other profession in the world, some are more successful than others. I communicate with tens of regular winners on a daily basis.
Just read poker sections at 2+2 other than NVG (strategy, goals and challenges etc) and you see there is still money left in poker.
Most of the text written itt is very bitter imo.

There are more players playing for a living than the people you see sitting @ FTP 1k/2k. Yes, games are tougher and people go broke b/c of various reasons sometimes (most of the time b/c too lazy to learn/keep up with the game), but it's not that dramatic like described in this thread.
Most players who are losing are playing poker as a hobby anyway, one likes to go play pool, other plays poker and that's it.

This post captures the delusion in it's purest form, there are a lot of people making a good living on poker pretty much everywhere in the world. But fact is that most who try to go pro don't make it and end up doing something else in their life. If you want stories you have lots of them if you care to look for them.

I don't know where you get the idea that I don't believe there is money in poker, since it is a game where you play for money there will be lots of it but this does not say that you or I will get a part of it; at least not big enough to make a living of it.

Other then this you are pretty much posting the random garbage that most do on 2+2. You take a few of the guys who have succeeded at poker and somehow think they represent everyone. If they do, who puts the money on the tables? Someone need to lose money for another one to be a winner and this is where your delusion comes into play. Since the losers don't stick around posting about how they lost another 10k a month you come to the conclusion that they don't exist. This reasoning is very strange and alien to most who make a living on poker, they meet these guys on a regular basis and see how they throw wad after wad of cash on the table chasing a few outs time and time again.

Most of the poker kids are looking for an image to build themselves on, I've meet these kids who think that just because they are "crushing" the 1/2 CG or the ~$300 tournaments they will make it big. I know of a few who has but pretty much all of them are playing a few nights every week since the money wasn't enough to pay the bills. It worked out when the poker money didn't need to pay rent, utilities and they had everything taken care of. Once they grew up reality caught up with them and they realized they needed to get a job and do something else to provide for themselves. I think one of these guys still play at a club I used to frequent, he did so last year at least but his problem was that he didn't make enough money to support himself and was forced to become a recreational player. A big winner but not winning big enough.

Poker is a liquidity market and if you don't behave like you should you will get into trouble. If you don't believe me just read a few threads where real pros tell their story. Your not finding some random kid but a very sharp individual that not only do good at the tables but also in life. They know what they are doing but many of you are clueless even when they try to tell you what to do and what not to do.

I'll end this by asking a very simple question, of the pros you had playing live and online 5 years ago. How many are still doing so? I have looked up some players myself and needless to say there are some who has dropped out. For whatever reason this is doesn't matter, they are simply not playing for a living anymore.

Get your **** together or the money you made won't be there in a few years. Easy come easy go...

I said nothing about making it big, what money that you and me don't get a part of it are you talking about?
"Few guys" who have succeed? What do you concider as "succeed"?
I say that there are plenty of guys out there who make a living which is considered comfortable by society standards, not some baller top 0.001% lifestyle, that's what I consider as succeed.
Lol @ easy come easy go. Yes some have been very lucky indeed, but most serious grinders work very hard and put in a lot of hours.


And of course all don't make it, isn't this what's happening at every field of work? Everyone will not be CEOs and that's life.
I am just arguing about the thread title, stating that almost every poker player is broke.
I don't consider losing player a poker player.

We'll see how many of these who are "making a living" from poker who will do it in 5 years. If we look back at the pros who were playing 5 years ago some names are not there anymore.

Having an employment cannot be compared to a game where you play for money. You don't need to sit down with your boss with your salary in some game to keep your job or get to stick around for another month. I don't know where you get the idea that most poker players go broke, most pros won't be around in 5 years and this is a fact. The guys who has been around for 30 years are much more likely to be here in 5 years but the guys who are starting out now probably won't, there was a documentary with a guy who had been playing for 20 years or so and he recalled that roughly 80% of the pros he knew when he started aren't around anymore and this does not count the odd guys he can't remember.

Just look at the players who were around a few years ago and see how many that are still playing for a living. The truth is there if you care to investigate but you won't since you are delusional and can't face reality. Just look at some of the old posters on 2+2 and try to get in touch with them to ask what they are doing. I know why some of them aren't playing anymore and so do you if you dare to say it out loud and it can and probably will happen again.

its perfectly sustainable to pay for all those things with poker

And what do you think is the reason behind those oldschool pros being broke?
They just don't adjust to todays standards, who do you blame?

The only reason behind your "not able no make a living after 5 years" is actually people getting better at poker, meaning there are more winning players and the competition is getting harder.
I'm not that optimistic to say poker will last forever, but there are def. lots of money around today and I assume there will always be people looking to gamble.

Other thing is poker laws at different countries which are killing the game, but that's another story.

I don't know if they are broke but I could imagine that sharing hotel rooms with the poker pals isn't that fun when you have a family. There are many reasons why a pro may quit and I say that going broke is one reason, perhaps not broke in the way that they are found begging on the streets of your town but the bills add up and the $200/hour doesn't support you anymore.

I have played poker for over 10 years now and I can tell you that at the 1/2 to 5/10 games and up to $300 tournaments you really don't have the competition getting any harder/tougher. At least from what I experienced last I played which was a while back. There are new faces and very few old but the games are pretty much the same where they play the same game and you approach it by the same old strategy as you did a few years back.

A suggestion would be that you get out of your parents basement and go to a card room to try out live poker. Do this once or twice a month and you'll find that the games play the same as always and probably will keep doing so for a long time to come.

Now you are saying that the games will stay the same, just a moment ago you told that after 5 years you are not able to make a living, which one is it?
I don't get it, you trolling?
You don't make any sense whatsoever.



Also, who do you assume winning players have to always crush and live way better lifestyle than everyone else? Job like every other imo which has it's up's and down's and of course some are more successful than others.

What are you talking about? I have never said I make or ever has made a living of playing poker. Where did you get this from? The fact is that if you look into the subject you don't have people who made a living of poker 5 years ago doing so today. You cannot escape this fact, you can give explanations to why this is but it is still a fact.

I don't really understand what you are trying to tell me right now, you need to make a minimum of dollars/time unit (take hours, days, years or what you want) to be able to sustain yourself and this amount of money is much bigger then you think. An example is people who play online that move to another country to cut the living expenses. Why would they do this if they can make a living from the games as they are now?

You clearly told "There are new faces and very few old but the games are pretty much the same where they play the same game and you approach it by the same old strategy as you did a few years back."
If you say something like this, how you come to a conclusion stating that after 5 yrs it's finito.

So basically as I understand, you mean that live poker is the goldmine and online is dead soon?


By your own words competition will stay the same, then how the fk am I not able to make a living? Just say you are a live nit and hate online players and I can go to sleep.

$200/hour not enough, what kind of world are you living in? That's easily enough to support one person and more than comfortably enough to support a decent sized family.

Nobody plays poker to making a decent living. They hope to hit the big time. But when time passes and that fails, poker becomes just a job and not a very good one. Sayonara

Are you on any form of medication or taking drugs at this moment? Your post is worse then my drunk ramblings and I was to have such tonight but got canceled so I decide to send time with you sober instead. I really can't understand what you write in the first paragraph and your posts are becoming strange. Have you been awake for along period of time?

When it comes to the 1/2~5/10 CG's and up to $300 tournaments I really wouldn't call them goldmines. They are soft and easy but even if you were to make 5BB's/hour you are not doing that good. Any decent player should be able to make at least 1 buyin in profit up to the $300 but there comes the problem, a $300 plays out in 6 to 9 hours. Sending this time playing isn't enough profit to sustain any form of normal life. A really good player that make 2 buyins per tournament are sort of touching the amount of money one need. You need to be at the +$500 buyin level to be able to make a decent living of tournaments IMO. It is easy money, but not enough.
It was mean to read $50/hour, my mistake.

Well, it's just a matter of one's life standards I guess and usa is not the only place where people play.

You and I have different understanding of what making a living is and that's about it.

"Not enough" is not even close argument for poker players getting broke.

Wow, this thread really sucks.

You mean to say you are not delusional about poker? Where are you going to move if your winnings don't cover your standard of life and you already have your card board box at the cheapest location you can find?

The reason why you need to make much money is so you can get by if the games dry up or get tougher for a few months to a year. Simply moving to a cheaper place isn't good since you may need to move again, and again unless you have the buffer that comes with making $50/hour which buys you time. You can drop from $50/hour to $25/hour but not from $20/hour to $10/hour and still get by. In the first case you can cut down on spending money and get by in the other you find yourself in big trouble fast. I'm talking about live games now but the same can be said about playing online; if you can't take a steep drop in your winnings you simply get into trouble.

Yah right ! Keep dreaming of winning the WSOP Main Event and one day you will realized that a Pokers Players Income just by playing online poker or 1/2 or 2/5 live wont pay a kid / kids college education.

Ivey is the best poker player ever? Jeez, so Stu Ungar must be at the bottom then. But maybe I agree with the original point, most do eventually go broke. Ungar is a great example here. But it's not that they can't beat the game, I'm sure that is not the case. However, controlling their money is another story.

Stu was one of the greatest of them all. Where did he end up? If you are just a
gambler and don't invest your winnings, you will go broke!

I'm not sure if bigfish is trolling.

It's expert level trolling, if it's a thin call that could go either way.

Trying to get people to respect money, treating the game professional and getting a grip on reality much be trolling. It's not like the delusional guy who don't recognize that not ever poker player can't be a winner and explains this away with a loser not being a poker player is the troll.

Hard times are coming for the poker players who are treating the games as a hobby. It is surprising that someone who at least should be above average intelligence, considering they win at the tables, are taking such a care free approach to how they treat their winnings and go about the cash flow. I can understand that my douchy persona may alien some to what I say but why not read the journal-threads some pros has posted and do what they do?