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Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying?

07-28-2014 , 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan
Do you find it at all possible that some people might not learn from them, or care what they have to say and find them very annoying?
As others have pointed out, you have plenty of alternatives from which the most obvious are, watch the telecast and not the live streams. If you still want to watch the live streams, hit the mute button. If you don't want to miss on the ACTION, that's what the animated graphics are for, they show stack sizes, positions, hole cards and actions on every street.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-28-2014 , 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan
By the way... I absolutely loved when Ivey was at the final table and his buddy was doing commentary by himself during the $1,500 8 game mix and he wasn't talking all this annoying strategy, but he was talking about how Ivey was so good any everything... I actually missed listening to it when I went to watch Ivey live in person... He is so amazing...
As I recall, this was a last-minute addition to the live stream schedule, done only because it was Ivey making a bracelet run. Nolan Dalla, Mark Hoke and a handful of people did a tag-team effort to provide commentary (to varying degrees of quality). Dalla took over for the last hour, right up to the winning hand.

Here is the archived video, all five hours of it, for those who haven't seen it: http://www.wsop.com/videos/?vid=103

If this is what the OP prefers, then I guess more power to him. But it's easy to see why this would never catch on, and further why the OP would fall into a very, very small minority who prefers this.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 01:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist
As I recall, this was a last-minute addition to the live stream schedule, done only because it was Ivey making a bracelet run. Nolan Dalla, Mark Hoke and a handful of people did a tag-team effort to provide commentary (to varying degrees of quality). Dalla took over for the last hour, right up to the winning hand.

Here is the archived video, all five hours of it, for those who haven't seen it: http://www.wsop.com/videos/?vid=103

If this is what the OP prefers, then I guess more power to him. But it's easy to see why this would never catch on, and further why the OP would fall into a very, very small minority who prefers this.
I don't think hes a small minority, not saying I prefer it. But if you look daniel was tweeting how great it was and everyone else was agreeing and saying it was hilarious. Assuming your talking about raymond davis.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 01:57 AM
Gabe Kaplan was the only poker commentator i could ever stand to listen too. All others are just annoying as ****. I actually liked the way gabe described the strategy bits.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 02:22 AM
Thanks for the link. I might rewatch it. If you could find me the link to where Ibey got 3rd I think, I would really appreciate it. That was some of most exciting poker I've ever watched... It was a couple years ago and I'm not sure what game it was... I'm on my phone and can't search...
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 02:47 AM
op, i dont think there's necessarily too much strategy talk, just that theyre not entertaining about it. Most of these guys are just introverted, square/boring people, and listening to them talk about anything will rarely be entertaining. But when u have guys like sommerville or esfandiari or hellmuth in there they talk plenty of strategy, but at the same time they are aware of the fact that entertaining is the priority, and they have the ability to do it. I think whoever puts out the live stream needs to recognize that no matter how solid a players strategical analysis is, some of them just have no business broadcasting it. Its like if u just had bill belichik and greg popovich hosting pardon the interruption on espn. Wow thats incredible insight into the intricate nuances of the zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 03:05 AM
Yea, I agree with what you're saying. I guess it just depends who is in there and how they commentate... I would listen to Hellmuth all day long and some others but I can't remember who lol...
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 03:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBadr
Seriously? give me a ****ing break, this thread has got be a level.
I was unsure about that until:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan
but he was talking about how Ivey was so good any everything... I actually missed listening to it when I went to watch Ivey live in person... He is so amazing...
Then I realized from his infractions that OP is a known troll. So yes, it's probably a level.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 12:10 PM
I love listening to Antonio Estanfiari (sp). Like someone said earlier, he understands there has to be some entertainment value. He mixes nerdy analysis with a little levity.

And I like when Antonio and Laak break down specific hands; they keep it light.

I hate that smug kid on WPT who scientifically breaks down specific hands. Dude, get over yourself. He's like Barney Stinson on HIMYM. Except he's not funny.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slam254
I hate that smug kid on WPT who scientifically breaks down specific hands. Dude, get over yourself. He's like Barney Stinson on HIMYM. Except he's not funny.
Are you talking about Tony Dunst? Because he does exactly what he's hired to do, and he does it pretty well imo (or at least did back when I watched WPT, I can't stand that show)
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 01:06 PM
Haven't read thread.

Agree with OP. I stopped watching WSOP / Televised poker because the commentary became dreadful boring. Someone please deliver Gabe Kaplan a dumptruck full of money to cast the WSOP and every important televised event.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 01:20 PM
i think that Dunst is absolutely the best at balancing legitimate strategy discussion and entertainment for casual players - i prefer as indeep strat as possible, but if there has to be some light talk, Dunst is great.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiseAgainst
Are you talking about Tony Dunst? Because he does exactly what he's hired to do, and he does it pretty well imo (or at least did back when I watched WPT, I can't stand that show)
Yes, Tony Dunst. Yes, he's doing exactly what he's hired to do. 100% agree.

I just find it tedious.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 01:36 PM
OP I think I speak for all of NVG when I say I thank you for being one of the fish that exists in the poker community for others to prey upon
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 02:09 PM
For the average joe this is bad, it makes poker look tougher, would be better to have a fun guy that talks trash

Would also be more enjoyable for the average joes.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 02:19 PM
I completely agree... I want the average Joe's to get interested. Not possibly intelligent people who are interested in the strategy and eager to learn... We want people to start playing, not start learning...
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan
I completely agree... I want the average Joe's to get interested. Not possibly intelligent people who are interested in the strategy and eager to learn... We want people to start playing, not start learning...

Veggie Boy just hit an interesting point here. We DO want them to start learning. The most lucrative mark in poker is not the absolute beginner who decides to try the game out on a lark. When he loses, he'll get discouraged and never come back.

No, the gravy train is the guy who has picked up a few tips, maybe skimmed HOH, watched some TV poker and now thinks he has mastered the game*. When he wins, it keeps him coming back. When he loses, well, he has learned enough about poker to know that it might just be variance. For this reason, one of the shrewdest Full Tilt ads was the one when Chris Ferguson gets his chips in good only to lose to a three-outer. It was effectively saying, "If at first you do not succeed, deposit, deposit again."

Anyway, this all goes back to support the OP's initial point: if the strategy talk gets too complicated or advanced, a novice would immediately learn from the commentary how far behind they are. They might never take up the game. If a commentator can put things in relatively simple terms — even it sometimes seems "beneath" the average 2+2er — more listeners would think "this all makes sense! I can do this!"

Put another way: shut your eyes and imagine a card room full of people who learned everything they know about the game from listening to Phil Gordon on Celebrity Poker Showdown. Got it? Good. Now open your eyes and go clean the drool off your keyboard.

Spoiler:
*This was me in 2005. At the right stake, it's still me in 2014.

Last edited by Wilbury Twist; 07-29-2014 at 03:43 PM. Reason: Added the spoiler/footnote.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan
I do not watch watered down poker broadcasts because I do not watch any poker on TV. The only poker I watch are WSOP live streams, preferably ones with no holecards. This is not an online poker final table we are watching, it's a live final table, so there should be less of the twoplustwo strategy discussion or a way to not have to listen to it...
There is, turn down the volume.

I like it personally.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenzor
Haven't read thread.

Agree with OP. I stopped watching WSOP / Televised poker because the commentary became dreadful boring. Someone please deliver Gabe Kaplan a dumptruck full of money to cast the WSOP and every important televised event.
I have a hard time imagining Gabe Kaplan doing a 3-4 hour live stream solo. He is excellent at edited footage however. Televised events, yes. Live streams are never going to main stream television.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist
if the strategy talk gets too complicated or advanced, a novice would immediately learn from the commentary how far behind they are. They might never take up the game. If a commentator can put things in relatively simple terms — even it sometimes seems "beneath" the average 2+2er — more listeners would think "this all makes sense! I can do this!"
Novices generally watch poker on tv that is commentated by norman chad and lon mceachern. People who go to the extent of seeking a live stream of a live event are generally past the novice stage. Each platform has a different target audience so as far as I am concerned, things are setup just fine, tv poker for casuals and novices while online streams for more analytical audience.
At any case, the OP is clearly trolling because at this point and based on the post referenced below, he essentially calling himself a fish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan
I completely agree... I want the average Joe's to get interested. Not possibly intelligent people who are interested in the strategy and eager to learn... We want people to start playing, not start learning...
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBadr
Novices generally watch poker on tv that is commentated by norman chad and lon mceachern.
and Mike Sexton and Michael Konik and Kenna James and Chad Brown and Robert Williamson and... (yeah, I'm going back a few years for some of these).

Fair point. I've definitely derailed myself from the live streams to telecasts, the latter of which is not what Veggie Boy is grousing about.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 06:12 PM
I respect your opinion and your right to have it. What I do not respect is you constantly trying to force this opinion on everyone when you are clearly in a small minority of people that share this opinion.
There are streams (secondary) that are presented in the way you prefer. There are more streams presented in the way most people actually prefer which is only logical.
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist
Veggie Boy just hit an interesting point here. We DO want them to start learning. The most lucrative mark in poker is not the absolute beginner who decides to try the game out on a lark. When he loses, he'll get discouraged and never come back.

No, the gravy train is the guy who has picked up a few tips, maybe skimmed HOH, watched some TV poker and now thinks he has mastered the game*. When he wins, it keeps him coming back. When he loses, well, he has learned enough about poker to know that it might just be variance. For this reason, one of the shrewdest Full Tilt ads was the one when Chris Ferguson gets his chips in good only to lose to a three-outer. It was effectively saying, "If at first you do not succeed, deposit, deposit again."

Anyway, this all goes back to support the OP's initial point: if the strategy talk gets too complicated or advanced, a novice would immediately learn from the commentary how far behind they are. They might never take up the game. If a commentator can put things in relatively simple terms — even it sometimes seems "beneath" the average 2+2er — more listeners would think "this all makes sense! I can do this!"

Put another way: shut your eyes and imagine a card room full of people who learned everything they know about the game from listening to Phil Gordon on Celebrity Poker Showdown. Got it? Good. Now open your eyes and go clean the drool off your keyboard.

Spoiler:
*This was me in 2005. At the right stake, it's still me in 2014.

Haha this was me back at the end of 07. Won a few home game sit n gos against other donks and thought I was awesome. Luckily I was a huge nit when it came to bankroll management.

But yeah, those are the guys you want. Back then those guys could go on heaters for a while and survive longer. Nowadays even at very low micro stakes they are goin to be crushed if they don't play a TAGish type game when they first start playing .
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
On my phone ops avatar looks like Judge Judy.
Lol, this
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote
07-29-2014 , 11:10 PM
The solution is simple... Secondary audio feed from the floor... Make it happen...
Does anybody find strategy discussion of EVERY hand in live commentating extremely annoying? Quote

      
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