i bet ivey wouldn't like it no matter what the commentary is like. i don't see him as the type of guy that enjoys to watch other people gamble when he can be doing it himself.

True, but if he was forced to watch it, like I am forced to listen to it, then I bet he wouldn't like it either... And guys, there is no need to bring up the mute button again, because then I won't be able to hear the ACTION which is the most important thing... Just saying this before people keep saying mute it...

you're forced to listen to it? lol ok. tell your master to please let you watch something different and maybe you won't be "forced" to listen to it. and you have to hear the action? like to hear those chips rustling or something? using your eyes to watch the action isn't good enough?

I have to say I agree for the most part with OP.

Having experts analysing hands is a good thing. But, many of these final table live streams goes on and on for hours. It just gets tiresome. Up to 1 or 2 hours is the most I can take of the WSOP live stream audio. It reminds me of some of those mindboggling long handhistory-videos coaching-sites fill up their video sections with.

The WSOP-streaming-folks should take a lesson from the EPT-streaming-folks.

That's why I like Norman Chad and Lon am harden so much... Norman tries to be funny, and Lon tries to talk strategy... People like Antonio and Hellmuth are the nuts though when they commentate. They talk about the players mental game like they have been watching and studying them and talk about tells, as opposed to the other commentators who treat it like an online poker hand and never stop talking through out the entire hand.

During live stream wsop final tables there is a tournament director who calls out all the action with his mouth and the viewers get to hear what is happening at the poker table. They might have some past broadcasts saved if you would like to watch one and see what we have been talking about in this thread...

Okay, now you lost me on two points. Lon McEachern does NOT talk strategy, nor should he. He's the play-by-play. Norman Chad is the analyst, but gives a minimal amount of strategy because (by his own admission) he doesn't know the game well enough to offer any real insight.

As for Esfandiari, I like him but he is precisely what you claim NOT to like: constantly guessing the hand ranges and predicting the play. "I wouldn't be surprised if..." is his catch phrase.

No, I'd take LivB over Antonio or Hellmuth any day, and I would suspect most people who frequent a poker forum would agree.

I really like Haxton, david yan and Dominik the german guy in the live stream of EPTs. Liv B is very good as well.

Are Laak and Esfandiari continuing their strategy breakdowns for ESPN this year? They are great for entertainment but their strategy analysis was about what I could deliver, and I'm terrible.

We help pay your wages though

No idea how good or bad you are, but I could live with a happy medium of a talent team that is bigger on the color and less concerned with the strategy, which I think is all the OP is saying. That's probably why I enjoy Joe Stapleton on commentary. He gives some actual insight on the play (as provided by Jimmy Fricke) but mostly seeks to make the broadcast an enjoyable listen. Whether or not he succeeds is a matter of taste, but I do like that objective.

That said, agree on Ike Haxton, too. Ike and LivB providing analysis is like getting hours and hours of training videos for free.

I think its annoying that you lump an entire age group into the category of "internet kids" when clearly theyre not bringing in random online players into these live streams, you know there are young guys who understand the intricacies of mtt strategy who play mostly live right? I rarely watch live streams but Id like to hear some specific examples of players youre talking about that annoy you

Yes, but I don't let it tilt me, I just mute the volume.

Yeah I like Staples as well and I think he is a good medium between too much and too little in regard to hand analysis.

I think 'bigger on the color' worked better when there actually was good table talk and characters etc like on high stakes poker and the old wsop episodes from perhaps 2003 to 2009. I think with the lack of it nowadays, it's better to have at least some strategy.

But yeah you need those backstories to bring in the non poker fans, although I have noticed that ESPN have pulled back on those a little in last few years (as in focused more on those who go deep plus the odd celeb, rather than the blind guy and the guy who plays with his feet etc)

OP you say you don't mind Tuchman but he's actually the one prompting the guest speakers to analyze every single hand. Furthermore, Tuchman will then typically say something like: 'now given that you know this about his range couldn't you...' which sends the guest commentator into a further elaboration of strategy. So I think that your problem is with him rather than with the guests in this regard.

Btw, if the hand analysis doesn't interest you I don't think you need to mute the broadcast but just selectively listen to them calling the action and mentally tune out the rest.

I clearly said I like Tuchman when he is by himself, but NOT when he has a guest with him and starts digging deep for strategy talk...

And yea, I have been trying to mentally tune out the rest, but after hours of doing it I just can't anymore...

same.

i enjoy these formats (especially with no hole cards) much better than any TV tourney poker

I find Vegans annoying

You know ... it'd be kind of fun if they put a heart monitor on each of the Nov Nine and viewers were able to see their heart rates go up or down on the tv screen during some pivotal moments during game action. Stuff like that would add to the audience's enjoyment.

Imagine seeing a major bluff move and seeing the player's heart rate skyrocket. Conversely, imagine the heart rate of the person who bet and got re-raised all-in with a decent but non-nut hand. It'd be thrilling. Also, what if there was a player who could make nerve testing moves but his/her heart rate actually drops. We'd name the player the true "Ice Man."

I just think the producers need to innovate more with the audience in mind.

The hole card may have been the last real innovation ... and the I think the guy who came up with it has passed away. It's that old.

This has been done before. Someone will know what I'm talking about, or if it happened on other occasions, but Mansion Poker sponsored a show with such a feature. Full Tilt also had a SNG of its red pros wearing heart monitors. I remember Phil Gordon's ticker going ape when he had a big hand, while Ted Forrest's didn't change at all regardless of the situation. That it involved Phil Gordon reveals how long ago this was.

Edit: Oh, and the inventor of hole-card cam (Henry Orenstein) made a final table at this year's WSOP. He probably appeared on a live stream with commentary by brutal and annoying internet kids.

Edit again:

Well I'll be... Henry Orenstein did just make the final table Stud tournament and got knocked out by Hell uth... Pretty cool...

press the mute button and shut the **** up.

/thread

Your boy Ivey would never watch something as boring as a poker broadcast with no commentary.

The only reason for me to sometimes tune into one of the live streams is to listen to a mix of strategy and side stories.

start a one man riot

Very well said.

I find longwinded tl/dr OP's extremely annoying. when the point is clear in the thread title.

I absolutely CANT STAND listening to these internet young guns CONSTANTLY discussing their arguments on EVERY SINGLE THREAD during visits to NVG. They do it constantly no matter how small the quarell or obvious their argument is.

DOES ANYBODY AGREE WITH ME ON THIS?

listening to poker nerds talk strat gives me a raging boner