Sounds oddly familiar. I seem to recall somebody asking about this in the software forum just a few days ago.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/4...ayers-1705390/

I don't know about others on the list bc I play PLO but no idea how Ari made your list. He/she chats it up and splashes around a lot. It makes me wonder about the list when accounts like that are added to it.

Yeah, there is nothing about Ari's play to suggest a bot, nothing at all. He makes no bones about donking about

confirmed, AriZahav will snap you off with 7 high all in pre for 10+ bbs at times for the gamble in MTTs

That's why some of these lists are counter productive. Concentrate on the worst offenders first.

FWIW, I've been "BOT checked" 3 times in last 4 days by WPN. I can't speak on how effective this method is because I'm not a technical guy.

Ok, then that name can be removed. Like I said the other reg had most from the list and much more volume then myself. I'd rather error on the side of caution or list too many names than vice versa. I am sure there are others that are potentially a reg as well on the list, but maybe others who see this list can step forward and point toward a few players and chime in on them. A bunch of these have very similar stat lines (yes that doesn't necessarily mean they are a bot).

Disagree, it takes away from the message when you list 30+ names. Then naming someone like Ari who is the furthest thing from a BOT.

Name ones you are almost absolutely positive about and then go from there.

+1

If you're not certain then don't post it publicly. Ask others via private message that know what they're looking at what they think.

Well I tried that first but I couldn't PM Joey because his inbox was full. A mod can delete the post if they want if they don't deem it worthy because of 1 name on there that is a player and not a bot (that name came from the other reg who I am guessing just made a mistake).

So people can't look at the list and come forward on ones they agree on? That makes no sense at all.

Ok I'll start with some for sure including the 2 from the hh above

stealwave
colonelcall

Others I have played with that definitely seem like a bot are EgorLetov, Kelebrian, Parcker

What is bot checked ?

How did you prove you weren’t a bot?

Why 3 times In 4 days ?

I do commend you on what you're trying to do. I just believe that precautions should be taken so that innocent players aren't falsely accused. I'm not sure how big your sample sizes are, but as you can see from the screenshot above there is a significant amount of hands tracked. Significant sample sizes are required to determine bot use through statistics. I think 10k hands should be a minimum for someone who is very familiar with tracking bots to start comparing one account to another.

I agree...my intentions are good as in I literally have no motive outside of wanting the bots banned. I have no bad blood with any of these players I listed. I tried to ask Joey a few questions via PM before I even posted in here about this but I couldn't so I just decided to mention it. I definitely made sure to put in a disclosure in my post that there may be regs in the list because my sample size was low (6k) vs the other reg that had some names that plays thousand(s) of a hands a day. I am seeing now that may not have been the best way to handle this, so like I said if a mod wants to delete my post they can. I was just trying to help on this topic as there does appear to be a lot of them on the site.

Because a bunch of names posted throughout this thread are real players, including live pros. It's wrong to accuse without any real evidence. An early poster said a bunch of players gave him the willies, or some nonsense. Three are known pros on his list. No need for someone innocent to try and prove themselves as being honest. It's why most bot threads/posts are locked up or deleted.

Known pros can't be capable of using bots? Would be easier for them to program a profile to earn.

I guess the way I look at it I don't see it as big of a deal as this. I put in the disclosure and posted a hh just as 1 example. They have similar stat lines but yes my sample size is not nearly enough as someone mentioned above.

If a person is real on this list they could easily PM a mod (without having to even post here) to identify themselves and the mod can post in here confirming they are good to go and edit my post to remove them.

Like I also said I tried to get ahold of someone before I posted it and if a mod wants to delete my post they can. I have no bad intentions, and I am just looking to get the bots banned from the site.

Edit - putting myself in their shoes if I am reading this thread I have no problem at all clearing my name if I was on the list. I'd even post here but obviously some may not want to do that. If that's the case I would PM Bobo and give whatever information he asks to show I am who I say I am with no complaints at all.

A message comes up on the screen while you are playing to press either a white or black button.

I'm not sure why 3 in 4 days. I play a lot of volume so perhaps they are doing that to all high volume players. I'd do it 10x/day if it meant cleaning up the games. I was checked once last summer as well using same method.

I personally think webcams would be the best method, all high risk players. I think it would clean it up really fast and then you have a nice baseline to catch new accounts that pop up and put in a ton of volume.

Ok thanks, I was just curious

1. You're giving mods work they didn't sign up for.
2. Just because someone comes forward and wants their name cleared doesn't mean they're not botting.

I suggest you build up your sample size and contact somebody who has experience tracking bots. You could pm me with your data if you'd like, but because WPN are not my regular games I would suggest you seek out more opinions.

Such a shame. I'm very disappointed in WPN/ACR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Z4_W7zWlk

Sonic3Dblast shows no tendencies of a bot and his stats are not even in the realm of the other obvious ones. He does grind a bunch, but imo I'd say with 95% confidence not a bot. Plus, he's chatted with me.

I don't know what your method of analyzing these things are, but stop throwing out names of accounts when you haven't done any in-depth research. It actually hinders the efforts of the ones who have spent time into this.

This is symptomatic of a small problem this thread has created - I'll call it the "Joey can fix everything" syndrome. And I'm not directing this specifically at you, as I've seen it many times in this thread, and occasionally even in other threads about different networks. Suspicious hands get posted from Ignition, someone says they should send it to Joey. Um, what?

This is nothing against Joey. Obviously he's bringing light to an important issue, and he's knowledgeable about poker. But so are a lot of other posters. I'd be surprised if we didn't have some posters that are much better than Joey at detecting bot-like play, and have been doing it much longer. I'd be surprised if he didn't agree with that. Again, that's not to besmirch Joey's name - it's just reflective of the fact that we have a lot of smart posters on our forums, some of which have a lot of expertise in these matters. So while there's nothing wrong with sending this stuff to Joey if he wants it, that shouldn't become the only go-to, or a substitute for investigating things yourselves. If you have a list of players you think could be bots but aren't certain, and don't want to publish the names - post as much in this thread. "Hey guys, have a list of possible bots, does anyone want to have a look and see what they think?" would be a great start.

The problem is, their name's already been put out there, and some people will come to premature conclusions based on that.

I'm not sure how this works - people PM us to tell us what?

What is it I'm going to be asking for?

This is another example of a problem on our forums, but a bigger one, I think. And again, this isn't aimed specifically at spimp, as his post is just the latest in hundreds of others just like it. It used to be that people were quite reluctant to put names out there without being very certain of what they were alleging. And if they did, other posters called them out immediately, we'd get post reports, etc. But as botting and colluding have become more prevalent and/or more noticed, it seems to have become quite standard for names to be posted first, and evidence provided last, and a lot of the time no one bats an eye at it. It's not surprising when spimp posts that list, as many have done it before, and he sees it as a way to help.

The problem with this, as others have alluded to, is that it waters down the efforts of those who have spent a lot of time properly investigating players. Once people lose all faith in the lists of names that are being posted, that happens regardless of who posted them or how much investigation they've done. And it drags some innocent names through the mud.

From a moderation point of view, what are we to do? I don't think any mod wants to be the judge and jury on these cases, and many of us wouldn't consider ourselves qualified to do so. So which lists stay, and which ones remain? I think we've come to a point where this needs to be policed by posters. Of course moderators can use their discretion in many cases; common sense will often make it obvious when something has been posted with little evidence, or extensive investigation. But many cases will fall into a gray area that I don't think it's realistic or fair to expect moderators to make decisions on.

As for this specific case, spimp has PMed me and said I can remove the names if I think they should be. I have no idea how legitimate his list is or isn't. But given that some doubt has been cast upon the list, and the poster has said he doesn't have the same kind of hand samples for all of them, it's probably best in this case to remove the list. I'm guessing someone might be willing to discuss his findings privately.

Cliffs:

1) Joey's brought an important issue to light, but he's not suddenly the default chief bot detective. There are other people willing to help if you ask.
2) Try to be careful with your accusations so as not to water down the efforts of others or sully the innocent.

Fair points and like I said I have no bad intention or bad blood vs any of these players. I only posted one hh on 2 players, but I probably could dig up plenty of others. My sample size is definitely not large enough like the other reg I have been talking to, but it sounds like his list wasn't perfect as well. I was just trying to do the right thing since I play vs a lot of these players and if they are bots they should be outed. More research should have been done first on my part....apologies for that.

^^

Ari is one of the biggest whales on the site, how could you possibly in your right mind think he is a bot? If these are the bots coming, please, someone order 10,000 more.